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What makes Paris look like Paris? (2012)

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Re: What makes Paris look like Paris? (2012)

#31

Post by etiennemarcel »

woodpanel wrote: post #28
realusername wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Housing is scarce causing high prices. Buildings are old and inconvenients. Paris is one of the most dense city in the world, there's nothing which can solve that.

It's not entirely true. If you walk the inner-city neighbourhoods, you will rarely encounter buildings with more than 10 stories [1]. Clearly there are options, which aren't on the table because of preservationism and zoning. [1] https://www.google.de/maps/@48.8575448,2.2997841,3a,75y,329....

And yet most arrondissements have densities similar or greater than Manhattan (28k / km2): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrondissements_of_Paris#Arron...

Re: What makes Paris look like Paris? (2012)

#32

Post by Thlom »

woodpanel wrote: post #28
realusername wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Housing is scarce causing high prices. Buildings are old and inconvenients. Paris is one of the most dense city in the world, there's nothing which can solve that.

It's not entirely true. If you walk the inner-city neighbourhoods, you will rarely encounter buildings with more than 10 stories [1]. Clearly there are options, which aren't on the table because of preservationism and zoning. [1] https://www.google.de/maps/@48.8575448,2.2997841,3a,75y,329....

But taller buildings equals wider streets to such a degree that the density you win by building high mostly gets eaten up by the lost real estate used for wider streets.

Re: What makes Paris look like Paris? (2012)

#33

Post by csomar »

keiferski wrote: post #16
csomar wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about Paris propre or "les banlieux"? I can agree if you extend Paris to the "banlieux" that there is definitively good voisinage but not for Paris propre. Unless you are willing to pay top dollars to stay in les Champs-Elysses. (which I don't find that good either).

Belville, Bastille, and most of the 13e are all within the périphérique and are all great places to live and have very little overt tourism.

But what are the prices for rent/purchase? I can see it has less metro stations but still well connected.

Re: What makes Paris look like Paris? (2012)

#34

Post by grosjona »

eloisant wrote: post #12
keiferski wrote: post #9

Anecdotally, after having lived in Paris for ~6 months, one of the most noticeable aspects of the city is its relative uniformity. Unlike Berlin, London, or Prague, you can wander for awhile in Paris and essentially see the same style of architecture and urban landscape repeated. It has something of an “endless” effect on your time perception.

That's because Paris is stuck in the 19th century with its Haussmannian style. Usually a city lives and changes to adapt itself to its times, and Paris was no exception... Until the 19th century. Now the local government wants to "preserve" it for the joy of tourists, to the detriments of locals. Housing is scarce causing high prices. Buildings are old and inconvenients. Paris is a museum-city. Designed for tourists.

I find modern minimalist architecture depressing; the ceilings are low, tables made of glass, everything tends to be white (made worse by modern LED lights), there are no decorative features. Big modern cities are designed to trick people into paying more money for a lower quality of life.

Re: What makes Paris look like Paris? (2012)

#35

Post by woodpanel »

etiennemarcel wrote: post #31
woodpanel wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not entirely true. If you walk the inner-city neighbourhoods, you will rarely encounter buildings with more than 10 stories [1]. Clearly there are options, which aren't on the table because of preservationism and zoning. [1] https://www.google.de/maps/@48.8575448,2.2997841,3a,75y,329....

And yet most arrondissements have densities similar or greater than Manhattan (28k / km2): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrondissements_of_Paris#Arron...

Size of Paris: 104km^2 [1]

Size of Manhattan: 59km^2 [2]

Density Paris: 21,000/km^2 [1]

Density Manhattan: 28,154/km^2 [2]

Comparing arrondissements with a larger area like Manhattan is not good. If you compare Manhattan's wards with Paris's arrondissements you get a clearer picture:

11th arrondissement: 41.500/km^2 [3]

Upper Westsides 25th district: 92.400/km^2 [4]

Looks like the visual comparison of stories works out quite well with regards to density

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrondissements_of_Paris#Arron...

[4] https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1KH824f7Bya0UVv...

Re: What makes Paris look like Paris? (2012)

#36

Post by harperlee »

everdev wrote: post #4

I've always been amazed at how at the epicenter of a large city or event there are many normal looking things that contribute subtly or inadvertently to the overall awe. It's not like everything in Times Square is magical, yet the sum of them is. I wonder how many of these more ordinary objects or store fronts you could remove and still keep the aesthetic wonder of the place. Take out the garbage cans, the street lig…

> This, milord, is my family's axe. We have owned it for almost nine hundred years, see. Of course, sometimes it needed a new blade. And sometimes it has required a new handle, new designs on the metalwork, a little refreshing of the ornamentation... but is this not the nine hundred-year-old axe of my family? And because it has changed gently over time, it is still a pretty good axe, y'know. Pretty good.

Terry Pratchett, The Fifth Elephant (Discworld, #24; City Watch, #5)

Re: What makes Paris look like Paris? (2012)

#37

Post by realusername »

woodpanel wrote: post #35
etiennemarcel wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet most arrondissements have densities similar or greater than Manhattan (28k / km2): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrondissements_of_Paris#Arron...

Size of Paris: 104km^2 [1] Size of Manhattan: 59km^2 [2] Density Paris: 21,000/km^2 [1] Density Manhattan: 28,154/km^2 [2] Comparing arrondissements with a larger area like Manhattan is not good. If you compare Manhattan's wards with Paris's arrondissements you get a clearer picture: 11th arrondissement: 41.500/km^2 [3] Upper Westsides 25th district: 92.400/km^2 [4] Looks like the visual comparison of stories works o…

If you build taller buildings, you will need to have wider streets, thus resulting in the same density, it won't solve anything.

Re: What makes Paris look like Paris? (2012)

#38

Post by [deleted] »

woodpanel wrote: post #35
etiennemarcel wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet most arrondissements have densities similar or greater than Manhattan (28k / km2): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrondissements_of_Paris#Arron...

Size of Paris: 104km^2 [1] Size of Manhattan: 59km^2 [2] Density Paris: 21,000/km^2 [1] Density Manhattan: 28,154/km^2 [2] Comparing arrondissements with a larger area like Manhattan is not good. If you compare Manhattan's wards with Paris's arrondissements you get a clearer picture: 11th arrondissement: 41.500/km^2 [3] Upper Westsides 25th district: 92.400/km^2 [4] Looks like the visual comparison of stories works o…

[deleted]

Re: What makes Paris look like Paris? (2012)

#39

Post by woodpanel »

realusername wrote: post #37
woodpanel wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Size of Paris: 104km^2 [1] Size of Manhattan: 59km^2 [2] Density Paris: 21,000/km^2 [1] Density Manhattan: 28,154/km^2 [2] Comparing arrondissements with a larger area like Manhattan is not good. If you compare Manhattan's wards with Paris's arrondissements you get a clearer picture: 11th arrondissement: 41.500/km^2 [3] Upper Westsides 25th district: 92.400/km^2 [4] Looks like the visual comparison of stories works o…

If you build taller buildings, you will need to have wider streets, thus resulting in the same density, it won't solve anything.

is it anecdotal or is it provable?

There are dozens of open wide Rues, Avenues and Boulevards in Paris that don't have any dense housing compared to Manhattan or Hong Kong etc.

Re: What makes Paris look like Paris? (2012)

#40

Post by keiferski »

csomar wrote: post #33
keiferski wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Belville, Bastille, and most of the 13e are all within the périphérique and are all great places to live and have very little overt tourism.

But what are the prices for rent/purchase? I can see it has less metro stations but still well connected.

It’s Paris, so of course it’s not going to be cheap. IIRC in Belville my studio was about 1,000€ per month, which compared to virtually any western megacity (London, NYC, SF, etc.) is a great deal. Of course, the place was tiny, but that’s Paris in general.
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