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Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

foreignpolicy.com

11–20 of 206 posts

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#11
>But the CIA’s interim system contained a technical error: It connected back architecturally to the CIA’s main covert communications platform. When the compromise was suspected, the FBI and NSA both ran “penetration tests” to determine the security of the interim system. They found that cyber experts with access to the interim system could also access the broader covert communications system the agency was using to interact with its vetted sources, according to the former officials.

>In the words of one of the former officials, the CIA had “fucked up the firewall” between the two systems.

If you read between the lines, this raises the suspicion that there's a common underlying infrastructure which handles the communications, with management front-ends for different users which are firewalled off from each other, and the security of the system relied upon the firewall between the different front-ends to prevent users from finding out about each other. However, an attacker who compromised the "less secure" front end, could use that as a launching pad to attack the underlying communication infrastructure, and if the attacker pwned the infrastructure, then he'd have a back entrance to the "more secure" front end.

If that's the case, then somebody was grossly incompetent, depending on the age of the system: if the system is old enough, then somebody running ops in the CIA is incompetent, for continuing to operate a system whose security model ("all you need is a strong enough firewall!") was obsolete; if the system is young enough, then either the original architects, or the security engineers who certified the architecture (if there were any), for proposing an architecture with an obsolete security model.

Arguably, that incompetence amounts to criminal negligence, since it resulted in the deaths of US agents, and somebody should be tried for it.

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#12
post #11

>But the CIA’s interim system contained a technical error: It connected back architecturally to the CIA’s main covert communications platform. When the compromise was suspected, the FBI and NSA both ran “penetration tests” to determine the security of the interim system. They found that cyber experts with access to the interim system could also access the broader covert communications system the agency was using to i…

How stupid it is to spend so much effort on compartmentalising their intel net in the country, but have all spies report by dialing in into the same website in a country employing few brigades worth of people reading tcpdumps 24/7?

Compare that to one way coded messages over hf radio: a place for pick up of a dead drop in n days is broadcasted, then it is picked up by a man who reads it, destroys it, and gtfos from the country. In that scheme nobody in any way contacts anybody in real time other that the HQ.

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#13
It took 8 years for the CIA to figure out what happened?? This certainly explains why China and Russia continue to conduct cyber operations basically at the same level of intensity they have been for years - US intelligence, despite its enormous, unaccountable budget is unable to stop them or even know where they are compromised. If there is an actual hot conflict between the US and either of these nations, I shudder to think what will happen.

I don't believe the US lacks in technical skill at the operational level. These failures are management and organizational failures.

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#14
post #10
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what we call the skill of "analysis" is to divide an abstract object into a set of its containing elements, and then differentiate those elements and treat each element for its own different case. China is one such abstract object...It's never about pro-china or anti-china -- after all it is a society of 1 billion individuals who are all differentiable from each other (and we have to differentiate a random ch…

And then didn't he die from ingesting hemlock?

>And then didn't he die from ingesting hemlock?

No. He probably died in his sleep.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato#Death

You're probably thinking of Socrates, who deliberately killed himself by eating hemlock.

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#15
post #11

>But the CIA’s interim system contained a technical error: It connected back architecturally to the CIA’s main covert communications platform. When the compromise was suspected, the FBI and NSA both ran “penetration tests” to determine the security of the interim system. They found that cyber experts with access to the interim system could also access the broader covert communications system the agency was using to i…

Agreed.

> U.S. intelligence officers were also able to identify digital links between the covert communications system and the U.S. government itself, according to one former official—links the Chinese agencies almost certainly found as well. These digital links would have made it relatively easy for China to deduce that the covert communications system was being used by the CIA. In fact, some of these links pointed back to parts of the CIA’s own website, according to the former official.

How was this approved? This is such an obvious no-no. Would have expected a completely standalone, ring-fenced platform with absolutely no relationship to the government's known IP addresses and domains?

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#16
post #2

"This didn't make it into the piece, but here's how the Chinese treated people working with the CIA: According to one source, one asset working at a state tech institutes, and his pregnant wife, were executed live on closed circuit TV in front of the staff." https://twitter.com/zachsdorfman/status/1029861843521523712

Obviously a revelation on Twitter about a secretive organisation's workings should always be taken with a grain of salt. However these sorts of reports aren't too uncommon, and it surprises me how there's a lot of pro-china commentators in communities such as HN who seem to glaze over these sorts of things and still aggressively promote the "Chinese way of doing things" is superior to whatever western value or opinio…

I agree that I see a lot of Chinese apologism in the form of "this is the Chinese way" here.

I wouldn't say that the comments are necessarily pro-China though, but rather just explaining that it is a different culture and things are done in a different way.

I do think it's a bullshit cop out though. I think that it's ignorant at best and racist at worst when people make comments here along the lines of "Chinese people like authoritarian societies and couldn't function in a democracy", usually justified by saying that China has been an authoritarian society since day 0. Europe, until recently, was a continent ruled by autocrats (whether in the form of kings, presidents, or emperors).

There are plenty of Chinese democracy activists, and I'm yet to meet a Chinese immigrant who has any love for the CCP and the Chinese government.

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#17
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously a revelation on Twitter about a secretive organisation's workings should always be taken with a grain of salt. However these sorts of reports aren't too uncommon, and it surprises me how there's a lot of pro-china commentators in communities such as HN who seem to glaze over these sorts of things and still aggressively promote the "Chinese way of doing things" is superior to whatever western value or opinio…

I think what we call the skill of "analysis" is to divide an abstract object into a set of its containing elements, and then differentiate those elements and treat each element for its own different case. China is one such abstract object...It's never about pro-china or anti-china -- after all it is a society of 1 billion individuals who are all differentiable from each other (and we have to differentiate a random ch…

I certainly don't disagree. I do think that your point is possibly lost on a lot of people that are drawing these sorts of comparisons though...

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#18
post #2

"This didn't make it into the piece, but here's how the Chinese treated people working with the CIA: According to one source, one asset working at a state tech institutes, and his pregnant wife, were executed live on closed circuit TV in front of the staff." https://twitter.com/zachsdorfman/status/1029861843521523712

I think the reason why Chinese government would execute defected officials, instead of putting them in prison for life, is because historically defected officials often caused very serious losses to the chinese communist party. For instance, one of the most damaging defectors in their history was Gu Shunzhang, who led to the arrest of hundreds of their underground communists (many of those arrested were executed by the KMT government at the time). In those early days, the Chinese communist party was very weak and had to fight for its own survival. So as a result, Zhou Enlai ordered the assassination of almost Gu's entire family, as warning and revenge [1]...

I think this bears a certain similarity to the rationale of that IRA members assassinated their defectors and French executed their traitors in WWII...

It's just sad to see that certain traditions still remained unchanged with the Chinese government (or more specifically, their communist party) ...but at least we can see how much they hate defectors; and we can find some common root of that in all humanity...

Perhaps things will change when they value human life more, which I think they will do when their individual's economic condition continues to improve...When the existence of an average life makes little difference to a society, statistically, life would be socially regarded as cheap...

--

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/1991/02/03/weekinreview/the-world-15...

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#19
post #13

It took 8 years for the CIA to figure out what happened?? This certainly explains why China and Russia continue to conduct cyber operations basically at the same level of intensity they have been for years - US intelligence, despite its enormous, unaccountable budget is unable to stop them or even know where they are compromised. If there is an actual hot conflict between the US and either of these nations, I shudder…

>>If there is an actual hot conflict between the US and either of these nations, I shudder to think what will happen.

a hot conflict entirely dependent on satellites and other means of communications. The war can end right after the first shot is fired.

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#20
post #11

>But the CIA’s interim system contained a technical error: It connected back architecturally to the CIA’s main covert communications platform. When the compromise was suspected, the FBI and NSA both ran “penetration tests” to determine the security of the interim system. They found that cyber experts with access to the interim system could also access the broader covert communications system the agency was using to i…

I obviously have no technical info, but my guess from this article is that 'back entrance' is probably inferring too much.

I would bet that communication apps A and B made connections to the same someCIADomain/IP range (or other less obvious metadata patterns, maybe the shared methods produced enough entropy on the whole to fingerprint).

Thus even if one can't read the content of the message the firewall matches the discovered pattern === likely a spy; so if the less vetted App A source was compromised offline and thus the shared online pattern is now known so too are sources using App B who were less likely to be compromised offline.

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