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YC China and Qi Lu

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#341

Post by europeanperson »

King-Aaron wrote: post #332
europeanperson wrote: post #309

I assume that most of the people that commented on this article live in the U.S. The majority of the world sees the U.S. as the world's biggest threat to world peace, yet I don't see anybody on Hacker News claiming companies shouldn't do business with the U.S. Since the war in Iraq, can we think of something that the Chinese government has done that is worse? I disagree strongly with the notion that the Chinese gover…

> can we think of something that the Chinese government has done that is worse? https://twitter.com/zachsdorfman/status/1029861843521523712

A horrible act, but I don't see how it is worse than the war in Iraq.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#342

Post by europeanperson »

mattigames wrote: post #325
europeanperson wrote: post #309

I assume that most of the people that commented on this article live in the U.S. The majority of the world sees the U.S. as the world's biggest threat to world peace, yet I don't see anybody on Hacker News claiming companies shouldn't do business with the U.S. Since the war in Iraq, can we think of something that the Chinese government has done that is worse? I disagree strongly with the notion that the Chinese gover…

USA is fairly variant in its own chaos, no president gets more than 8 years, internet censorship by the state is looked down by all parties; people who oppose the wars it goes can complain without fearing for their lives; a big chunk of this behavior and similar ones is because the US is made from people of a lot of races including Asians and Asia-descendants. On the other hand China just recently confirmed a "presid…

I agree that the U.S. is way more democratic than China. My argument is that the wars that the U.S. has started have been way more damaging to the world and, as a consequence, moral objections to doing business with China without having those same objections when doing business with the U.S. just seems hypocritical to me.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#343

Post by mattigames »

europeanperson wrote: post #342
mattigames wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA is fairly variant in its own chaos, no president gets more than 8 years, internet censorship by the state is looked down by all parties; people who oppose the wars it goes can complain without fearing for their lives; a big chunk of this behavior and similar ones is because the US is made from people of a lot of races including Asians and Asia-descendants. On the other hand China just recently confirmed a "presid…

I agree that the U.S. is way more democratic than China. My argument is that the wars that the U.S. has started have been way more damaging to the world and, as a consequence, moral objections to doing business with China without having those same objections when doing business with the U.S. just seems hypocritical to me.

The chance that in a couple decades the US is part of no big war is existent; the chance that China is gonna become a democracy in a couple of decades is null; so yeah, doesn't seem that hypocritical to me.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#344

Post by europeanperson »

mattigames wrote: post #343
europeanperson wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the U.S. is way more democratic than China. My argument is that the wars that the U.S. has started have been way more damaging to the world and, as a consequence, moral objections to doing business with China without having those same objections when doing business with the U.S. just seems hypocritical to me.

The chance that in a couple decades the US is part of no big war is existent; the chance that China is gonna become a democracy in a couple of decades is null; so yeah, doesn't seem that hypocritical to me.

This is not a game of chance. Hundreds of thousands of people have died. Let's base our principles based on what actually happens. I think it's ridiculous to give the U.S. a pass because the killing might stop in a few decades.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#345

Post by remir »

client4 wrote: post #329
remir wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Chinese, like Americans, want to make their home and the world a better place How about respecting human rights? That would be a start. Technology can help for some things, but past a certain point, "making the world a better place" also imply policy changes.

And what I'm saying is, my government doesn't respect human rights, but I as a citizen do. You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater arguing private US business shouldn't work with anyone in China because they must all be human rights abusers. /s

You seriously think this is about making the world a better place?

It's about money. Private businesses don't care about Chinese citizens. They care about cold hard cash.

Now, am I saying private US businesses shouldn't work with anyone in China? Not really. All I'm sayng is: at the end of the day, technology can only do so much. Eventually, policy must change also and this is valid for any country, including the US.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#346

Post by justicezyx »

Sporktacular wrote: post #339
justicezyx wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't China's human rights situation got vastly improved with its improved economy?

No, it hasn't: "One Million Muslim Uighurs Have Been Detained by China, the U.N. Says. Where’s the Global Outrage?" https://theintercept.com/2018/08/13/china-muslims-uighur-det...

OK OK Seems no country improved in terms of human rights. I cannot continue this nonsensical discussion.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#347

Post by vinceyuan »

qihqi wrote: post #307
nailer wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taiwan is not "China" for reasonable and informed definitions of China. Taiwan is literally the Republic of China. The leadership is descended from the same people who overcame the Japanese. Pretending the Communist Party has a monopoly on the word 'China' is uninformed and unreasonable. Off topic, a better compromise would have been Hong Kong, inside the PRC with some degree of democracy, though less than original…

You are not wrong that Taiwan is part of China according to official definition (from both PRC and Taiwanese gov). However, "Taiwan is literally the Republic of China." is disingenuous considering that their government is not the one that sits in the United Nations.

I don't want to get involved in politics. But I have to point out "Taiwan is literally the Republic of China." is 100% correct. The official name of Taiwan is Republic of China (ROC). On the cover of Taiwan passport, you can only see Republic of China. The interesting thing is the claimed territory of Republic of China includes the China mainland and Mongolia, not just Taiwan island. The official name of China mainland is People's Republic of China (PRC), literally same to Republic of China (ROC). It's too complex for western people to understand. Just refer them as China and Taiwan.

I am from China mainland, having friends and colleagues from Taiwan. Don't want to see wars happen between PRC and ROC.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#348

Post by vinceyuan »

Not sure Qi Lu is the best person for this position.

Though Qi was born in China, he almost spent his all career time in the US. Probably the time he worked in China is less than one year. You can't expect this person knows China market, Chinese young people, Chinese companies well, and has connections with people in China gov.

And he worked for big companies only (Yahoo, Microsoft, Baidu). He never worked in startups. Can he find and invest good startups? I don't know.

Anyway, YC entering China is a good thing. Hope Google search will come back to China soon.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#349

Post by taobility »

jumelles wrote: post #71
dragonwriter wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caring about human rights is not silly. Expecting capitalists (the economic class, not the ideological faction) to put human rights over returns on capital is, if not silly, at least naively optimistic.

That's why we speak out (like this!) and force them to do the right thing. As I've said elsewhere, there are things more important than profit. Companies that disagree ought to be boycotted. Maybe that's naive. It's still the right thing to do. No amount of money can shift what's right and wrong.

You can work for fun or charity, but you can't and shouldn't force anyone else do the same thing. That's called moral abduction.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#350

Post by ProAm »

pnathan wrote: post #328
ProAm wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a recognition that the Chinese world is a rising superpower To be fair this has been known since the early 90's maybe even late 80's

It's a growing recognition - a lot of the 90s commentary around China was, in my recollection, essentially mediated by genteelly stated Yellow Peril racism and fear, much like the 80s fear of Japan. Along with a fair dose of anti-Communism - reading the old Leninist & Stalinist ideas for world revolution into the CCCP. The 2000s have allowed, in my opinion, a more mature understanding of China with less stereotypical…

My perspective and experience was always different. Everyone saw the Chinese manufacturing behemoth starting in the late 80's and early 90's. And as a result we saw a future superpower, at least economically. It did not have anything to do with racism, just money.
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