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Google Needs to Come Clean About Its Chinese Plans

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Re: Google Needs to Come Clean About Its Chinese Plans

#31

Post by seanmcdirmid »

est wrote: post #12
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fact 1: Google only pulled search business out of China. adsense/adwords/maps works fine in China YouTube and Gmail also don't work in China, which are significant. They technically didn't leave China, however, because they never entered it. > Fact 2: Search engines are more and more irrelevant these days. All interesting new content are either from Weibo or Wechat (or other closed garden) I think you mean to quali…

> I think you mean to qualify that with in China? I mean even if the "android app" came out how does it gain traction? Does anybody actually use an "app" to search on mobile phones?

If it was my only alternative to baidu, maybe.

Re: Google Needs to Come Clean About Its Chinese Plans

#32

Post by mapgrep »

est wrote: post #2

Fact 1: Google only pulled search business out of China. adsense/adwords/maps works fine in China Fact 2: Search engines are more and more irrelevant these days. All interesting new content are either from Weibo or Wechat (or other closed garden) Fact 3: all reports about "Google returning to China" are based solely on the "Intercept report"[1] as source. I suggest everyone take a look at it. I think there's a huge m…

>all reports about "Google returning to China" are based solely on the "Intercept report"[1] as source

False. There has been a lot of independent reporting on this (even if credits Intercept for getting it first, and yes I work there).

NYT confirmed based on "two people with knowledge of the plans." https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/01/technology/china-google-c...

WSJ confirmed based on "a person familiar with the matter." https://www.wsj.com/articles/google-considering-censored-sea...

Reuters confirmed with "two sources said." https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-google/google-plans...

VICE confirmed with "a source inside the company." https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/9kmdm8/google-china-cens...

Re: Google Needs to Come Clean About Its Chinese Plans

#33

Post by Eridrus »

bobjordan wrote: post #28

I'm an American, own and operate two Chinese companies (an operations/engineering consulting company and a factory). I was here when Google left. From the end user's viewpoint, internet censorship has only become more strict. While VPN access has never been totally unavailable, it can be painful to use. I've changed my browsing habits to settle for using Bing more than I otherwise would have. At the same time, I'm th…

Is there anywhere I can read about Bing in China? My attempts to Google this before seeing your coent led to contradictory claims, like Bing being blocked.

Re: Google Needs to Come Clean About Its Chinese Plans

#34

Post by bobjordan »

Eridrus wrote: post #33
bobjordan wrote: post #28

I'm an American, own and operate two Chinese companies (an operations/engineering consulting company and a factory). I was here when Google left. From the end user's viewpoint, internet censorship has only become more strict. While VPN access has never been totally unavailable, it can be painful to use. I've changed my browsing habits to settle for using Bing more than I otherwise would have. At the same time, I'm th…

Is there anywhere I can read about Bing in China? My attempts to Google this before seeing your coent led to contradictory claims, like Bing being blocked.

Try https://cn.bing.com/

Re: Google Needs to Come Clean About Its Chinese Plans

#35

Post by sheepmullet »

yeukhon wrote: post #8

EFF complains about this ONLY because EFF partnered with Google https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/03/work-eff-summer-apply-... . You don't hear Mozilla or Apple complaining about Google returning to China though. I am not really sure why Google matters in China and how this matters to anyone. You enter someone's country and you ought to obey the local laws there. Just as Chinese companies entering U.S. need to respe…

> This means Googlers should all quit - but trust me, most people won't, even though they cheer others to stand up

The American way is just to start doing a half ass job!

That way you keep getting paid lots but aren’t contributing to evil.

Re: Google Needs to Come Clean About Its Chinese Plans

#36

Post by est »

mapgrep wrote: post #32
est wrote: post #2

Fact 1: Google only pulled search business out of China. adsense/adwords/maps works fine in China Fact 2: Search engines are more and more irrelevant these days. All interesting new content are either from Weibo or Wechat (or other closed garden) Fact 3: all reports about "Google returning to China" are based solely on the "Intercept report"[1] as source. I suggest everyone take a look at it. I think there's a huge m…

>all reports about "Google returning to China" are based solely on the "Intercept report"[1] as source False. There has been a lot of independent reporting on this (even if credits Intercept for getting it first, and yes I work there). NYT confirmed based on "two people with knowledge of the plans." https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/01/technology/china-google-c... WSJ confirmed based on "a person familiar with the matt…

well, it's good to know the same two people are verified again and again. I do really appreciate those links.

Are there any further development besides the initial "Intercept report" details?

My best guess is that Google China somehow partnered with a major Android ROM developer in China to provide a search component in Android system, some kind of integration with "Custom Search API".

It's nothing like the full search experience is returning to China, but technically it's based on the same google search infrastructure.

Re: Google Needs to Come Clean About Its Chinese Plans

#37

Post by seanmcdirmid »

yeukhon wrote: post #8

EFF complains about this ONLY because EFF partnered with Google https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/03/work-eff-summer-apply-... . You don't hear Mozilla or Apple complaining about Google returning to China though. I am not really sure why Google matters in China and how this matters to anyone. You enter someone's country and you ought to obey the local laws there. Just as Chinese companies entering U.S. need to respe…

> You enter someone's country and you ought to obey the local laws there.

China doesn’t have rule of law, they never had a law about censorship, at least not back when google left. It was basically the party telling Google that they had to police themselves and not to talk about what they told them in public, because transparency is a horrible thing in China.

It’s like a top secret law that no one is allowed to know about but everyone must follow.

Google leaving China the first place was about bad governance and corruption, not censorship.

Re: Google Needs to Come Clean About Its Chinese Plans

#38

Post by threatofrain »

darpa_escapee wrote: post #22
aviv wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not my point. I don't like or listen to the guy, but your reaction shows precisely why they chose him. Who is next? If they can take down someone as vocal as Alex Jones, they can take down anyone.

Let this be a lesson to us all. If you blatantly violate terms of service, there's no amount of harassing families of school shooting victims that will get your platform back.

Banning people like Alex Jones won't unharass those parents either. People around the country still think that those parents lied about the death of their children in order to score financial or political gain.

And what exactly is Alex Jones' brand of conservatism? Does it involve a narrative of white extinction and false black victimhood? Climate change as a conspiracy? Obama is a Muslim who isn't even a US citizen? What makes Alex Jones conservative?

Re: Google Needs to Come Clean About Its Chinese Plans

#39

Post by robjan »

est wrote: post #2

Fact 1: Google only pulled search business out of China. adsense/adwords/maps works fine in China Fact 2: Search engines are more and more irrelevant these days. All interesting new content are either from Weibo or Wechat (or other closed garden) Fact 3: all reports about "Google returning to China" are based solely on the "Intercept report"[1] as source. I suggest everyone take a look at it. I think there's a huge m…

Maps does not work in China. Source: in China

Re: Google Needs to Come Clean About Its Chinese Plans

#40

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Eridrus wrote: post #33
bobjordan wrote: post #28

I'm an American, own and operate two Chinese companies (an operations/engineering consulting company and a factory). I was here when Google left. From the end user's viewpoint, internet censorship has only become more strict. While VPN access has never been totally unavailable, it can be painful to use. I've changed my browsing habits to settle for using Bing more than I otherwise would have. At the same time, I'm th…

Is there anywhere I can read about Bing in China? My attempts to Google this before seeing your coent led to contradictory claims, like Bing being blocked.

Even USA bing shouldn’t be blocked. You could always try to Bing bing rather than Google bing.
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