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Katie's New Face

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Katie's New Face

#131

Post by colmvp »

TomMckenny wrote: post #82
crescentfresh wrote: post #47

As a father to two so-far-healthy young boys, one soon to be a teenager I feel devastated at the thought of either of them having to endure the level of emotional chaos that Katie went through the moments leading up to her suicide attempt. My stomach goes into a knot at the thought. I mean gosh, it was a cheating boyfriend. I don't know what to do to protect them from such a path.

Perhaps if there are no instruments at hand that allow the young to act on such a disastrous suicidal impulse, at least some of these incidents could be prevented.

Maybe. A close friend of mine used pills instead of a pistol. Thankfully they didn’t succeed in their endeavour but the fact is people who are intent on doing the deed will find a method.

Re: Katie's New Face

#132

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

TomMckenny wrote: post #82
crescentfresh wrote: post #47

As a father to two so-far-healthy young boys, one soon to be a teenager I feel devastated at the thought of either of them having to endure the level of emotional chaos that Katie went through the moments leading up to her suicide attempt. My stomach goes into a knot at the thought. I mean gosh, it was a cheating boyfriend. I don't know what to do to protect them from such a path.

Perhaps if there are no instruments at hand that allow the young to act on such a disastrous suicidal impulse, at least some of these incidents could be prevented.

Ugh, are you trying to make this anti gun?

There are so many ways to commit suicide it's hardly worth listing them here. If her family kept any pills in the bathroom it's likely she could have killed herself without leaving the room.

Re: Katie's New Face

#133

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

ClassyJacket wrote: post #94
crescentfresh wrote: post #47

As a father to two so-far-healthy young boys, one soon to be a teenager I feel devastated at the thought of either of them having to endure the level of emotional chaos that Katie went through the moments leading up to her suicide attempt. My stomach goes into a knot at the thought. I mean gosh, it was a cheating boyfriend. I don't know what to do to protect them from such a path.

Live in any other country than America, I guess, so an emotional person can't get their hands on a gun in two seconds.

This seems to be a popular thought on hacker news for some reason, but seriously, there's countless ways to commit suicide. If your solution is to take away just one of the tools, you aren't going to get very far.

Chances are there were pills in the medicine cabinet that could have been used as well. Or countless other ways that also take only a split second decision (and that's assuming she picked up the gun off the table and didn't have to go find it).

Come on, you're smarter than this.

Re: Katie's New Face

#134

Post by jacquesm »

maxxxxx wrote: post #59
ansible wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Great War channel covered this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYPtmFZqKC0 Just like the article, it isn't an easy video to watch.

When I was at German military we saw similar videos for our first aid training. The video opened my eyes. In my view this should be required viewing for everyone to make sure they understand what war really is. With all the cool smart bombs, jet fighters and night vision goggles it's being portrayed as way too clean and fun.

And with war-by-remotecontrol it gets ever closer to looking and feeling like a video game where you go home to your family after killing a bunch of people on the other side of the world.

Re: Katie's New Face

#135

Post by PeterisP »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #133
ClassyJacket wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Live in any other country than America, I guess, so an emotional person can't get their hands on a gun in two seconds.

This seems to be a popular thought on hacker news for some reason, but seriously, there's countless ways to commit suicide. If your solution is to take away just one of the tools, you aren't going to get very far. Chances are there were pills in the medicine cabinet that could have been used as well. Or countless other ways that also take only a split second decision (and that's assuming she picked up the gun off the…

The method of choice, however, does have a significant effect on survivability or reversibility of a suicide attempt (pills in the medicine cabinet are a prime example, many people have been saved after taking a lethal dose of medicine) and the ease of availability also has a meaningful effect on the likelihood of suicide attempts; if people are forced to think about it some more, some of them reconsider (e.g. this very case which was a non-repeating impulse, not something premeditated). A solid example for this is the pesticide-based farmer suicides in SE Asia, where countries that limited availability of human-deadly pesticides significantly reduced the number of farmer suicides.

While there are countless other ways to commit suicide, experience shows taking away just one of the tools can save many, many lives.

Re: Katie's New Face

#136

Post by PeterisP »

slfnflctd wrote: post #119
toast_coder wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think plastic is an option. There isnt an artificial material that can replace skin. The options are to keep the mangled face, or replace.

I think monkeynotes was more talking about a high quality mask. After this article, I'm thinking I would feel the same way. I'm not sure I could handle going through this process, especially all the unending maintenance required afterward. I hope Katie and her family are continually keeping in mind how they are helping push medical science forward and benefiting future patients. That's a big part of the value of thes…

It's not about cosmetics that can be tackled with a high quality mask - it's also about all the practical functions that the face needs to tackle; e.g. the lip musculature necessary for speech and eating, eyelid/tearduct function, and nose breathing. If you're missing lots of tissue from your face, you will need a transplant (inevitably high maintenance) of some kind, so it might as well be a full-face one.

Re: Katie's New Face

#137

Post by labbyz »

philjohn wrote: post #124
qiqing wrote: post #92

Notable call-to-action from the article: > Adrea Schneider’s organs and tissues have helped at least seven people. > From halting infections to curing blindness, a single donor can save or > improve more than 70 lives. Enroll to donate organs, eyes, and tissues > at RegisterMe.org and marrow at BeTheMatch.org. To donate a kidney > or part of a liver or other organ while alive, contact a transplant center.

The UK is soon to be moving to an opt out for organ donation (with the usual caveat that family members can still refuse to allow it), I was saddened to see some people spinning it as "the government wants control over my body" when all it takes is a simple checkbox to say you don't want to be a part of it.

Make it opt-in. Then you give control away to the government deliberately.

All it takes is a simple checkbox to say you want to be a part of it.

It should be easier to receive mailing list spam, than it is to sign over your body, but opt-out makes it the other way around.

Forgetting (or being unwilling to be forced) to sign a checkbox does not make one a willing participant, but an unwitting one. I understand this saves lives, but then again, lots of unconstitional actions may save lives. No excuse. No convience.

You, and only you, as an adult, has sovereignity over your body. Opt-out is a grave breach of this sovereignity. That is the spin "the government wants control over my body": A violation of your human rights and a government-run organ market.

Re: Katie's New Face

#138

Post by Gustomaximus »

jdoliner wrote: post #10
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #6

> Much of Katie’s care is being paid for by the Department of Defense, because her youth and ballistic trauma make her a stand-in for wounded warriors. For the rest of her life, she’ll take powerful antirejection drugs with risks of their own, becoming a lifelong subject in the study of this still experimental surgery. Kudos to the DoD for doing this. The military historically has been the driver for advances in surg…

I think I remember reading that the DoD deserves credit for the entire field of plastic surgery, it was originally pioneered to help soldiers who had suffered disfigurement in combat. Only later did it become something for civilian augmentation.

Not to diminish their contributions to better surgery, it's fair to recognise there is a long history of plastic surgery before DoD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_surgery#History

Re: Katie's New Face

#139

Post by DoctorOetker »

> The face surgeons go first. But since organs are precious and face transplants are not lifesaving, if the donor’s condition started to decline, the team would have to abandon its work to allow other surgeons to collect the donated organs.

What exactly is meant with "if the donor's condition started to decline"? How does one monitor the condition of organs in a dead body? What technology is used to monitor the state of organs in a dead body?

Re: Katie's New Face

#140

Post by jdietrich »

briandear wrote: post #107
throwaway987909 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate the glamorization of the military. I don't understand how anyone would actually join. Sacrifice yourself mentally, and physically to fight political wars for the rich and powerful. No thank you. But the propaganda is soooo strong it preys on people who can't think for themselves.

Go visit Taliban controlled Afghanistan when girls couldn’t go to school. Visit areas of Afghanistan after the US cleared Taliban areas and built schools. The girls that can now go to school aren’t rich and powerful, but it’s a fact that fighting that war helped make that possible.

The CIA were happy to supply hundreds of millions of dollars in arms to the mujahideen during the 1980s. The US chose to support Islamist insurgents in a proxy war against the Soviet Union and the Afghan people have paid the price for that decision ever since. Many of the American soldiers who died in the war in Afghanistan were killed with weapons that were bought and paid for by their own government. If you believe that the American invasion of Afghanistan was a humanitarian gesture, you have been given an extremely narrow understanding of history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone

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