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Katie's New Face

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Katie's New Face

#81

Post by mynameishere »

forapurpose wrote: post #50
CaptSpify wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think that she wouldn't have tried to commit suicide via another means if she didn't have access to a gun?

If I understand correctly, plenty of research shows that it's an impulsive decision, and access to a tool that makes it easy greatly increases the likelihood of acting on it. The research shows that the presence of guns, in particular, in increases suicide. Killing yourself is hard; a gun makes it a push-button operation. However, it would be much better if someone could share the actual research with us.

If someone thinks about suicide for years and then "impulsively" picks up that gun, I'm guessing the researchers count that as an "impulsive decision". On the other hand, it does seem Katie's attempt was genuinely a spur-of-the-moment thing, and a proper gun cabinet might have been sufficient to stop her.

As a PSA, don't ever try to kill yourself with a gun. The success rate is only 70 percent. The 30 percent who survive are much worse off than the rare jumper who survives the golden gate bridge

Re: Katie's New Face

#82

Post by TomMckenny »

crescentfresh wrote: post #47

As a father to two so-far-healthy young boys, one soon to be a teenager I feel devastated at the thought of either of them having to endure the level of emotional chaos that Katie went through the moments leading up to her suicide attempt. My stomach goes into a knot at the thought. I mean gosh, it was a cheating boyfriend. I don't know what to do to protect them from such a path.

Perhaps if there are no instruments at hand that allow the young to act on such a disastrous suicidal impulse, at least some of these incidents could be prevented.

Re: Katie's New Face

#83

Post by specialist »

da_chicken wrote: post #38
grillorafael wrote: post #18

Does anyone know why most (if not all) face transplant have such wide jaw line ?

I would guess that it's swelling and scar tissue buildup (fibrosis) from the surgery and ongoing autoimmune response. As far as her immune system is concerned, the grafted face is a foreign invader. She's going to take anti-rejection drugs her whole life and she will always be at risk for total rejection in the future.

I can confirm that cyclosporin and prednisone, two immunosuppressive medications, make the patient bigger.

Re: Katie's New Face

#84

Post by dbbk »

crispyporkbites wrote: post #61
sDlEzAtyoNAz wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also have a substantially reduced ability to defend your families against violent criminals that live in your country, so there's kind of a trade off there. And no, violent criminals don't need guns to hurt you. People have been hurting each other a lot longer than gunpowder has been around.

> You also have a substantially reduced ability to defend your families against violent criminals that live in your country Does that really happen enough to worry about? Should I spend my money on a newer, safer car or a gun? Or maybe on more comprehensive healthcare for my family instead? Perhaps on living closer to schools and other amenities so we don't have to drive as much? I can't imagine that there are that m…

This is where the argument always fails for me. "But having a gun means I can defend my family!" Against what? I just don't buy the premise that you're significantly at risk of a violent attack out of nowhere, for no reason, at any given time. I've never felt even remotely unsafe living in London, let alone felt the need to keep a weapon on me.

Re: Katie's New Face

#85

Post by toast_coder »

monkeynotes wrote: post #21

She's pretty brave to go through all of that, so much pain in so many ways. I think had this been my own situation I'd rather have some kind of plastic prosthetic than someone else's face and a lifetime of rejection treatment. I just don't think my psychology could handle the physical and emotional pain of accepting another face. That said, I know little about living with the alternative that she was dealing with. Cr…

I don't think plastic is an option. There isnt an artificial material that can replace skin.

The options are to keep the mangled face, or replace.

Re: Katie's New Face

#86

Post by _delirium »

bsder wrote: post #65
adventured wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countries in Europe with higher suicide rates than the US: Sweden, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, Finland, France, Russia, Belarus, Poland, Latvia, Hungary, Slovenia, Ukraine, Estonia, Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria. Countries with nearly as high of a suicide rate: Germany, Czech, Portugal, Iceland Countries in Europe with high suicide rates, but solidly below the US: Slovakia, Denmark, Netherlands, Ireland, Romania, Norw…

Your statements match neither raw data nor standardized rate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_r...

Unless I'm misreading, the data you link suggests that the correct interpretation is that the US has basically middle-of-the-road suicide rates by European standards, no? Going by the age-standardized rates, it's sandwiched between Sweden and France in the list. Some European countries are significantly higher (Belgium, Poland), while others are significantly lower (Spain, UK), but the US doesn't seem to be a real outlier.

Re: Katie's New Face

#87

Post by allannienhuis »

throwaway987909 wrote: post #77
jonah wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. I think we need to market images of badly disfigured veterans as a tragedy instead of an honor.

I hate the glamorization of the military. I don't understand how anyone would actually join. Sacrifice yourself mentally, and physically to fight political wars for the rich and powerful. No thank you. But the propaganda is soooo strong it preys on people who can't think for themselves.

Just on the topic of why people sign up: I think many people join because they really think they're doing something good - defending those that need protection or help from the 'real' bad guys. Obviously that's not 100% what's really going on all the time but it has enough truth in it to be attractive. And I think it's true that some real good is done by (most?) military organisations - ie disaster relief, some major engineering projects, policing in areas without effective security, etc, so some people do get to live those ideals out, and pass along that part of the military culture. It's not _entirely_ propaganda, nor it is all shooting guns at people.

Re: Katie's New Face

#88

Post by ebbv »

hokumguru wrote: post #78
crispyporkbites wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You also have a substantially reduced ability to defend your families against violent criminals that live in your country Does that really happen enough to worry about? Should I spend my money on a newer, safer car or a gun? Or maybe on more comprehensive healthcare for my family instead? Perhaps on living closer to schools and other amenities so we don't have to drive as much? I can't imagine that there are that m…

I believe the CDC estimates the low-end of lives saved by guns in the USA each year to be 300,000. High end to be a few million. Dwarfs the number of gun deaths

Hahaha uhh no. Not even remotely. This is completely pulled out of your ass. First of all the CDC has been banned from studying guns since GW Bush administration. Secondly deaths by homicide in the US aren’t even close to that. California had the most murders of any state in 2016 and it wasn’t even 2000, then it drops off quickly from there. Total murders in the US is less than 20k per year. For your number to be right guns would have to be stopping 93.7% of murders.

Where did you even get that ridiculous number from? Insanity.

Re: Katie's New Face

#89

Post by tptacek »

jbob2000 wrote: post #27

> While the two were outside talking about how upset Katie was, she went into the bathroom, put the barrel of Robert’s .308-caliber hunting rifle below her chin, and pulled the trigger. Why did she have access to that gun? I bet Robert considers himself a "safe" gun owner too. Keep your guns locked and separate from your ammunition. Gun culture takes another victim.

This is like the archetypical off-topic ideological tangent. On a thread about a stunning and complicated medical achievement, more than 30% of the comments are a firearms debate issuing from this comment. Please don't write stuff like this. I know it seems natural to use this story as a launching point for talking about the broader ideological issue, and unnatural not to do that when it's the obvious thought the story generates in your head, but with volatile topics we have to resist the urge lest flamewars burn down the threads.

(I fucking hate firearms, for whatever that's worth).

Re: Katie's New Face

#90

Post by sDlEzAtyoNAz »

dbbk wrote: post #84
crispyporkbites wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You also have a substantially reduced ability to defend your families against violent criminals that live in your country Does that really happen enough to worry about? Should I spend my money on a newer, safer car or a gun? Or maybe on more comprehensive healthcare for my family instead? Perhaps on living closer to schools and other amenities so we don't have to drive as much? I can't imagine that there are that m…

This is where the argument always fails for me. "But having a gun means I can defend my family!" Against what? I just don't buy the premise that you're significantly at risk of a violent attack out of nowhere, for no reason, at any given time. I've never felt even remotely unsafe living in London, let alone felt the need to keep a weapon on me.

>Against what?

In the US, that would be against the individuals who collectively commit millions of violent crimes per year (surveys indicate this number easily exceeds 5 million per year).

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