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Katie's New Face

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Katie's New Face

#61

Post by crispyporkbites »

sDlEzAtyoNAz wrote: post #49
Markoff wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

better solution would be not having guns at all, you don't see these suicides in Europe or very rarely due to limited access

You also have a substantially reduced ability to defend your families against violent criminals that live in your country, so there's kind of a trade off there. And no, violent criminals don't need guns to hurt you. People have been hurting each other a lot longer than gunpowder has been around.

> You also have a substantially reduced ability to defend your families against violent criminals that live in your country

Does that really happen enough to worry about? Should I spend my money on a newer, safer car or a gun? Or maybe on more comprehensive healthcare for my family instead? Perhaps on living closer to schools and other amenities so we don't have to drive as much?

I can't imagine that there are that many scenarios where a gun saves the day from violence... but maybe that's because I don't live in america

Re: Katie's New Face

#62

Post by gdubs »

This is an incredible work of journalism, the gravity of which is felt within the opening paragraphs and photos. Really puts things in perspective, doesn't it?

Re: Katie's New Face

#63

Post by CaptSpify »

wild_preference wrote: post #56
jbob2000 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She totally could have. But other means of suicide give family and bystanders a chance to intervene. Pills and alcohol can be pumped out of the stomach. You can be pulled down from the edge of a bridge. You can rescue yourself from a hanging if you find you have last minute regrets. A gun is brutally efficient at killing you; Load and pull the trigger. If the gun is lying around loaded, all you have to do is pick it…

Well, maybe we should have a right to die.

Although I generally agree with you, she said she regretted the attempt:

“I felt so guilty that I had put my family through such pain. I felt horrible.”

Re: Katie's New Face

#64

Post by davebryand »

crescentfresh wrote: post #47

As a father to two so-far-healthy young boys, one soon to be a teenager I feel devastated at the thought of either of them having to endure the level of emotional chaos that Katie went through the moments leading up to her suicide attempt. My stomach goes into a knot at the thought. I mean gosh, it was a cheating boyfriend. I don't know what to do to protect them from such a path.

I like to think of my role as "dad" is to prepare my kids as opposed to protecting them. Life is going to happen, we can't protect them from everything. What we can do is help our kids create themselves in such a way that "emotional chaos" is not part of their experience.

Re: Katie's New Face

#65

Post by bsder »

adventured wrote: post #52
Markoff wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

better solution would be not having guns at all, you don't see these suicides in Europe or very rarely due to limited access

Countries in Europe with higher suicide rates than the US: Sweden, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, Finland, France, Russia, Belarus, Poland, Latvia, Hungary, Slovenia, Ukraine, Estonia, Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria. Countries with nearly as high of a suicide rate: Germany, Czech, Portugal, Iceland Countries in Europe with high suicide rates, but solidly below the US: Slovakia, Denmark, Netherlands, Ireland, Romania, Norw…

Your statements match neither raw data nor standardized rate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_r...

Re: Katie's New Face

#66

Post by [deleted] »

jonah wrote: post #12
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #6

> Much of Katie’s care is being paid for by the Department of Defense, because her youth and ballistic trauma make her a stand-in for wounded warriors. For the rest of her life, she’ll take powerful antirejection drugs with risks of their own, becoming a lifelong subject in the study of this still experimental surgery. Kudos to the DoD for doing this. The military historically has been the driver for advances in surg…

Or, you know, we could just stop sending our young people out to get blown up... Kudos to the DoD for funding these experiments but they're solving a problem of their own creation...

[deleted]

Re: Katie's New Face

#67

Post by sDlEzAtyoNAz »

bsder wrote: post #60
sDlEzAtyoNAz wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also have a substantially reduced ability to defend your families against violent criminals that live in your country, so there's kind of a trade off there. And no, violent criminals don't need guns to hurt you. People have been hurting each other a lot longer than gunpowder has been around.

> You also have a substantially reduced ability to defend your families against violent criminals that live in your country, so there's kind of a trade off there. You don't wish to go here as the statistics are against you. Gun owners are far more likely to have their gun fired in an accident or in a suicide than as genuine defense against a criminal. > And no, violent criminals don't need guns to hurt you. People ha…

>You don't wish to go here as the statistics are against you.

What a hilariously arrogant statement.

>Gun owners are far more likely to have their gun fired in an accident or in a suicide than as genuine defense against a criminal.

Whether your gun is more likely to be used against you or in an accident is almost entirely in your power to control. Whether someone else decides to attempt to make a victim out of you is much less so. Wealthier people may be able to take precautions like avoiding areas frequented by certain groups of people and strategically choosing where to live but that is out of reach for many.

>As the victim, you are far more likely to survive an encounter if a gun isn't involved.

You're also vastly less able to prevent yourself and your loved ones from becoming victims in such an encounter if you aren't armed. That's why criminals in the US have a much greater tendency to avoid occupied homes than do criminals in other parts of the world. I would much rather take my family's safety into my own hands than leave it to the benevolence of violent thugs.

Re: Katie's New Face

#68

Post by loco5niner »

jonah wrote: post #12
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #6

> Much of Katie’s care is being paid for by the Department of Defense, because her youth and ballistic trauma make her a stand-in for wounded warriors. For the rest of her life, she’ll take powerful antirejection drugs with risks of their own, becoming a lifelong subject in the study of this still experimental surgery. Kudos to the DoD for doing this. The military historically has been the driver for advances in surg…

Or, you know, we could just stop sending our young people out to get blown up... Kudos to the DoD for funding these experiments but they're solving a problem of their own creation...

Oh hey, that's an idea. Why didn't we think of that earlier? Hey everybody lets just stop wars!

Unfortunately, there will always be bad people and the only way to keep the innocent safe is for good people to step in and do difficult things.

Re: Katie's New Face

#69

Post by mavdi »

Christ what a difficult story. A single moment of pure stupidity and madness can ruin ones life and the lives of loved ones instantly.

Re: Katie's New Face

#70

Post by practice9 »

crescentfresh wrote: post #47

As a father to two so-far-healthy young boys, one soon to be a teenager I feel devastated at the thought of either of them having to endure the level of emotional chaos that Katie went through the moments leading up to her suicide attempt. My stomach goes into a knot at the thought. I mean gosh, it was a cheating boyfriend. I don't know what to do to protect them from such a path.

> I mean gosh, it was a cheating boyfriend. I don't know what to do to protect them from such a path.

Can't even imagine how guilty boyfriend feels in this situation..

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