Intangible investment behaves differently
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Re: Intangible investment behaves differently
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
I had the same thought. Also, I'm not even sure that this diagram makes sense overall because supply, demand and price are so tightly interconnected (with feedback loops in both directions) that it doesn't make sense to separate them like this.
> Also, I'm not even sure that this diagram makes sense overall because supply, demand and price are so tightly interconnected (with feedback loops in both directions) that it doesn't make sense to separate them like this. How so? Econ major here, and I agree the axes should be swapped, but I don't follow your other point.
If I was a company director and the price of the commodity that I produced dropped by a lot, I would work harder to produce more of the commodity to offset the lower profit margins; that way I could earn the same bonus at the end of the year in order to make the payment for the mortgage on my yacht.
Also in the case of cryptocurrencies, it doesn't seem to work the way the graph suggests; when the price goes up, people buy more.
Re: Intangible investment behaves differently
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There are no assumptions in supply and demand, it's not a dynamic equilibrium, it's a snapshot. It absolutely is an equilibrium in normal economics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_microeconomics
Assumption 1 from article: "demand for a product goes up, supply increases, and price goes down" Assumption 2 from article: "The second assumption this chart makes is that the total cost of production increases as supply increases. Imagine Ford releasing a new model of car. The first car costs a bit more to create, because you have to spend money designing and testing it. But each vehicle after that requires a certai…
With assumption 2, he's saying that in software (and many other businesses now), supply curves do not necessarily slope upwards. For software, producing 100,000 units takes exactly as much money as producing 1,000 units, and can be offered at the same cost.
The author (who is Bill Gates, BTW, and can be assumed to know a thing about microeconomics) only alludes to this and doesn't say it outright, but there are a number of knock-on consequences to flat supply curves that explain much of the counterintuitive properties of the tech industry but aren't well-explained by classical economics. For example, the "lottery economy" aspect (where there is one company that ends up dominating a market and the size of that company is dictated only by the size of the market) comes from zero marginal costs: once a software firm has built a solution that satisfies a market, there is nothing stopping it from expanding to serve the whole market far faster than any competitor can enter. The existence of the VC industry follows from this, because when success is binary and can't be interfered with once discovered, it makes sense to spread capital across a number of bets, hoping for a hit, rather than rationally analyze how much additional return invested capital will give in an existing business.
Google & Facebook's dominance also stems from this zero-cost-of-production property. When your cost of production to provide the good or service is zero, then the only thing blocking your continued expansion is finding & convincing potential customers. With CAC forming an increasing percentage of your total marginal costs, any services that lower it or make it scale better can realize huge profits.
Re: Intangible investment behaves differently
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/azAAAOSwD99av12v/s-l1600.jpg There's a shrink-wrapped cardboard package that contains Windows 98. It's the size of a cereal box, and at least as colorful. Today, I'd be intensely annoyed if I had to wait for and pay for a large box to ship - I'd much prefer an instant download, but the box was much more tangible than an email with a download link and license key.
"Well all games used to come as a CD in a box, simply because it wasn't viable to download them from the internet." Was this not the reason software was distributed in CDs? I can understand MSFT/Apple using that packaging for customer experience.
The problem was that you couldn't convince consumers to pay for software downloaded over a modem. (The infrastructure wasn't in place anyway - nobody was going to send their credit card number unencrypted to a random BBS sysop, and encryption was outlawed as a munition.) Many software firms in fact had huge problems with piracy over modem, and would build copy-protection into their software so you needed the original physical disk to run the software.
The idea that you could pay for a license key that unlocks software you download over the Internet only happened in the early 2000s, driven by combination of remaining restrictions on encryption being dropped, easy-to-integrate payment solutions for webpages coming to market, and widespread broadband adoption meaning that most consumers could easily download a big file.
Re: Intangible investment behaves differently
#85> it combined Apple’s MP3 protocol WTF, seriously?
Re: Intangible investment behaves differently
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Assumption 1 from article: "demand for a product goes up, supply increases, and price goes down" Assumption 2 from article: "The second assumption this chart makes is that the total cost of production increases as supply increases. Imagine Ford releasing a new model of car. The first car costs a bit more to create, because you have to spend money designing and testing it. But each vehicle after that requires a certai…
He's referring to the static equilibrium in assumption 1. Supply & demand curves, as drawn in economic textbooks, refer to marginal supply and marginal demand. The X-axis is is quantity, so what the graph is saying is that producing 100,000 units of some good is assumed to cost more than producing 10,000 units, and similarly consumers will be more willing to buy 10,000 units than 1,000 units at a given price (the Law…
I'm not sure what you mean, this is 100% covered in general economic theory with barriers to entry.
> Google & Facebook's dominance also stems from this zero-cost-of-production property. When your cost of production to provide the good or service is zero
But it's actually not 0 or even close to it. There are still economies of scale at play, if Facebook were to lose millions of users their costs would grow per user, which is what a marginal cost curve represents. Just because the curve is different doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I'm pretty disappointed with Gate's post, because every academic economist I know is mocking it...since it's not well represented or thought out. It ignores so many principles and theories in economics for the sake of being "ground breaking." Even though most of the theories are hundreds of years old and still apply completely.
Re: Intangible investment behaves differently
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
1) Everything you say is correct, and I have no idea why you're being downvoted. 2) In my experience, the supply+demand curve is one of the most misunderstood concepts in economics, and it took me a long time in college until I found an economics professor who could explain it properly. A lot of really intelligent people I know don't understand it (even though they think they do), and in my experience most business p…
RE 2), could you share your understanding, or point towards some resources that would let me check if my understanding is correct?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand
It does a good job of getting into and linking to its nuances, although it's not exactly a tutorial or anything.
Re: Intangible investment behaves differently
#88The fact that replicating a piece of software or music digitally has near zero cost suggests that the fair price according to classic economic theory is zero (the argument being, that the price in a competitive market should approach the limit price). Of course what we see instead is a lot of companies that are now rent seeking and that no longer sell a piece of software to you but rent it out for a fixed price (SaS,…
I think you are confusing the definition of rent seeking, meaning achieving economic gains by means of regulation that is virtually risk free, with collecting rent as a form of payment for a service or product. These are two different concepts, despite the name they share.
Re: Intangible investment behaves differently
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Also, I'm not even sure that this diagram makes sense overall because supply, demand and price are so tightly interconnected (with feedback loops in both directions) that it doesn't make sense to separate them like this. How so? Econ major here, and I agree the axes should be swapped, but I don't follow your other point.
Why is it that when the price drops, consumers would want to buy more and producers would necessarily want to produce less? If I was a company director and the price of the commodity that I produced dropped by a lot, I would work harder to produce more of the commodity to offset the lower profit margins; that way I could earn the same bonus at the end of the year in order to make the payment for the mortgage on my ya…
> Why is it that when the price drops, consumers would want to buy more and producers would necessarily want to produce less?
I would phrase it as when the price is lower, there are more consumers who would buy, and fewer producers to sell. To take the demand curve, for example, it doesn't explain one person's behavior at different prices. Rather, think of the curve as a thousand points, each representing a different person and their own maximum price at which they would buy the item. The supply curve is a thousand producers each with the minimum price they'd be willing to operate at.
> If I was a company director and the price of the commodity that I produced dropped by a lot, I would work harder to produce more of the commodity to offset the lower profit margin
Yes, this is already reflected in the supply curve. If your company is able and willing to produce that commodity at a lower price, you're already reflected on the supply curve as one of the points on the line below the current equilibrium price. You have what's called a "producer surplus" if you'd be willing to produce at a lower price than the equilibrium.
Take the supply of uber drivers for example. If the price of rides decreases, you may to some extent see drivers adjusting how much they drive, but the main effect is to remove drivers from the market who have better uses of their time, less efficient cars, etc. Similarly, if the price increases you'll see new uber drivers coming online driving their clunky SUVs or whatever.
Or, in the case of cryptocurrency, the supply follows this as well: at a higher price, less efficient miners or people in locations with higher utility prices will be able to profitably mine, and so the number of people supplying computation will increase.
> Also in the case of cryptocurrencies, it doesn't seem to work the way the graph suggests; when the price goes up, people buy more.
This, too, works with the supply and demand curves, when you understand them properly. The concept at work, here, is that changing supply or demand (i.e. think of the thousands of people that make up each curve shifting their preferences in the aggregate) represents shifts of the curve, not movements along it. Increased demand is the curve shifting up and/or to the right (it's the same thing).
So, when the price goes up, people see it in the news and have FOMO and so "demand increases", meaning the curve shifts to the right. If you look at the graph again, you'll see that means the equilibrium price increases, which is what's happening. That, in turn, drives more breathless speculation and aggregate demand increases again, pushing the curve further to the right, driving up the price some more.
Concept check: the supply curve is not shifting, here. Per my earlier paragraph, the increasing price may mean more miners come online, but that's already what the supply curve means. A shift in the supply curve would be something like a new breakthrough energy technology making everyone's utilities cheaper. That means if everyone's minimum price before was $x, they're now willing to supply computation at $x + 5, shifting the supply curve to the right and (if you check the diagram) driving down the equilibrium price (since the # of bitcoins in circulation will increase faster and the demanded fee by the miner's will be less).
Re: Intangible investment behaves differently
#90There are two assumptions you can make based on this chart. The first is still more or less true today: as demand for a product goes up, supply increases, and price goes down. If the price gets too high, demand falls. Er, no. I guess even smart people like Gates get simple economics wrong sometimes. It's understandable, though, I've always felt the P/Q axes should be switched, since people always speak about the pric…
I think that's a poorly phrased segway.
What he actually seems to be talking about later is that marginal cost flattens after some number of units, but then continues at a fairly constant level (representative of material inputs).
Contrasting this with software and intangible production, where the marginal cost continues to decrease for much larger scales, before hitting a much lower floor (compute + disk + amortized development + maintenance).
And how the proportion of our economy governed by that different marginal cost vs volume curve has continued to grow. And that this has underappreciated implications on how we design economic law.
As he notes, Capitalism Without Capital is an exploration of this idea that he read and enjoyed.