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YC China and Qi Lu

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#311

Post by europeanperson »

b_b wrote: post #262
kaptain wrote: post #107

The political concerns are real. It's too cynical to say that YC just cares about money, though. There would be better ways to create an incubator than to do it like this, if that were the case. One obvious question that hasn't been raised is: "Why not base it in Taiwan?" It's still "China" (for some definition of China), you can still get access to the talent that you want (you just have to try a little harder), and…

I don't think it's too cynical given this move at this point. They have willingly entered into a market where corporations are sponsored for their loyalty to the state, which has done horrendous humanitarian crimes, without which they could have succeeded economically just as well. Seems to me any semblance of a soul has been lost here in favor of pure VC profits.

If they were against doing business in countries that have "done horrendous humanitarian crimes", they wouldn't have done business in the U.S.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#312

Post by europeanperson »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #310
europeanperson wrote: post #309

I assume that most of the people that commented on this article live in the U.S. The majority of the world sees the U.S. as the world's biggest threat to world peace, yet I don't see anybody on Hacker News claiming companies shouldn't do business with the U.S. Since the war in Iraq, can we think of something that the Chinese government has done that is worse? I disagree strongly with the notion that the Chinese gover…

You really don’t read HN much if you’ve missed all the criticism leveled at the USA.

You got me there. It's just that almost all of the current comments talk about how YC shouldn't do business in China, while they're already doing business in the U.S. I just don't see how it is worse, when the U.S. has a far more violent recent past.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#313

Post by seanmcdirmid »

europeanperson wrote: post #312
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really don’t read HN much if you’ve missed all the criticism leveled at the USA.

You got me there. It's just that almost all of the current comments talk about how YC shouldn't do business in China, while they're already doing business in the U.S. I just don't see how it is worse, when the U.S. has a far more violent recent past.

There are many comments that don’t say that, however.

The USA is still a great place to do business if you want to make money. My only arguments against China is that the system is more rigged against foreigners from making money there.

The moral arguments are a distraction, though they are mostly true. Yes, China has third world problems, yes the USA has first world problems. Whatever, the world is an imperfect place.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#314

Post by europeanperson »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #313
europeanperson wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got me there. It's just that almost all of the current comments talk about how YC shouldn't do business in China, while they're already doing business in the U.S. I just don't see how it is worse, when the U.S. has a far more violent recent past.

There are many comments that don’t say that, however. The USA is still a great place to do business if you want to make money. My only arguments against China is that the system is more rigged against foreigners from making money there. The moral arguments are a distraction, though they are mostly true. Yes, China has third world problems, yes the USA has first world problems. Whatever, the world is an imperfect plac…

I agree.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#315

Post by europeanperson »

jumelles wrote: post #45
gdsdfe wrote: post #35

Hahaha people talking about ethics are silly ... This is business in a market, potentially, at least 3x bigger than the current biggest market! Are you nuts? Everybody's gonna do business in China! Everybody! In some form or shape.

Caring about human rights is silly?

It is if you apply it to China and not to the U.S.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#316

Post by dang »

explainplease wrote: post #138
dang wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unsurprising that you Godwinned this thread, since where else can monotonic escalation go? By doing that you've cemented the point. If you guys want to fling furious links around, you need to find another site to do it. It isn't part of thoughtful discussion—it's pure reflex.

Without a doubt the worst bullshit I've ever seen from dang. So tell us, Dan, how would one criticize the Chinese government for imprisoning dissidents and genocide, while staying within your guidelines? How must one couch it to pass the Great Firewall of Hacker News? Serious question.

The answer to your question is in the site guidelines: "Comments should get more civil and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

To the extent that people are fulminating rather than saying anything substantive, and reacting ideologically or tribally rather than thoughtfully, they're crossing outside the scope of what this site is for. Heated rhetoric, grandiose generalization, and angry name-calling are the kind of thing that mark this distinction. Your comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17764244 is an example of the kind of thing that clearly moves the needle into the red.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#317

Post by dang »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #226
dang wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unsurprising that you Godwinned this thread, since where else can monotonic escalation go? By doing that you've cemented the point. If you guys want to fling furious links around, you need to find another site to do it. It isn't part of thoughtful discussion—it's pure reflex.

Complaining somebody "godwinned" a thread (which is a total misrepresentation of godwins law, and even the person that coined it said this kind of interpretation of it is stupid) is an unbelievably lazy dismissal of a situation that is quite literally directly comparable to some of the worst actions the nazis took. If we aren't allowed to talk about and compare what the nazis did, how will we learn from it? If this c…

On the internet, no one is "talking about and comparing what the Nazis did" for the purpose of learning. It's a rhetorical device, the cheapest, most sensational, lowest-information one around.

We actually moderate HN threads less, not more, when YC is the topic—this is a longstanding principle on HN. But that doesn't mean we don't moderate them at all. You only need to read a small sample of the moderation comments we post to this site to see how consistent we are on these questions.

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#318

Post by tanilama »

natch wrote: post #305
tanilama wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say assuming people from Guangdong province, and majority of them don't speak Mandarin is an exaggeration to great extent. Of course they do, it is imperfect with heavy accent. But I won't go that far claiming they don't speak Mandarin, as if saying all English speakers in India don't count, that is just hilarious.

I never made any such claims. This kind of poor quality conversation is not worth engaging in.

It is definitely your claim about the 300 million Chinese that they don't speak Mandarin, that is why the whole conversation happens. Otherwise, it won't add up, even assume majority of Guangdong province don't speak Mandarin at all.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#319

Post by b_b »

bjlorenzen wrote: post #306
b_b wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's too cynical given this move at this point. They have willingly entered into a market where corporations are sponsored for their loyalty to the state, which has done horrendous humanitarian crimes, without which they could have succeeded economically just as well. Seems to me any semblance of a soul has been lost here in favor of pure VC profits.

China's actions seem horrendous from our perspective, but at least they are only operating within their own borders. How do you feel about the decades of war and destruction wreaked worldwide by our own government, including the bombing of schoolchildren just this week?

This is some serious whataboutism. Our government may have done horrible things, but that doesn't justify China's in any way either.
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