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YC China and Qi Lu

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#281

Post by natch »

Jommi wrote: post #146
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone can learn how to say 你好are you? But seriously, getting basic taxi cab mandarin down in 6 months is pretty easy. Heck, when I did it it was much harder since real beijingers back then had thick 儿 accents. You definitely don't need 大山-level mandarin to do business in china these days.

Yeah but it's still not honest to say you don't need to learn Chinese at all. I would say that you will need atleast 6 months to be able to live normally, 12 months to get respect in business meetings, 3-4 years to be understood and make it a comp. advantage.And I'm not talking about 上海。

After seeing Mark Zuckerberg's "Chinese ability" I have less respect for him than before. I don't think 12 months cuts it. Maybe gives you a cute factor, yes. I would think respect is independent of language ability, unless you are taking language ability as your main selling point as a person. I'm sure Bill Gates is both respected in China, and effective, whether he speaks any Chinese or not. It all depends on the circumstances.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#282

Post by hguant »

claydavisss wrote: post #266
PaulHoule wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have. I own very little Apple hardware and only because I am a software dev. I certainly buy many things from China because it is hard to never get anything from China, but often you do have a choice. I was at Target, for instance, and I bought a Samsung branded microwave oven from Malaysia which has a 44/100 score from Freedom House as opposed to China which has a 14/100 score. I have also gotten into fixing old t…

"very little Apple hardware" still means you own more Apple hardware than 95% of the world's population, including 99% of the people who manufacture it. but it sounds like you have rationalized this somehow, so why shouldn't everyone else?

This is a fallacious argument, akin to conservative talk show hosts dismissing the concerns of college students because they own iPhones.

Just because you exist within a system does not invalidate your complaints about the system.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#283

Post by pnathan »

This is a recognition that the Chinese world is a rising superpower, both in innovation and in politics. Reminds me to study Mandarin!

I wish them all the best, and I hope that the interactions with the great qualities of YC produces an excellent step forward for China and its technologists.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#284

Post by d2161 »

yumraj wrote: post #270
kaptain wrote: post #107

The political concerns are real. It's too cynical to say that YC just cares about money, though. There would be better ways to create an incubator than to do it like this, if that were the case. One obvious question that hasn't been raised is: "Why not base it in Taiwan?" It's still "China" (for some definition of China), you can still get access to the talent that you want (you just have to try a little harder), and…

I don't think it is too cynical to say that YC just cares about money, as it is not too cynical to say that all VCs and Wall St. financial firms just care about money - unless the VCs charter has some other purpose like social good clearly defined. Moreover, here, it would have been OK if the political climate in China was improving, but it's not. In fact with Xi getting supreme power, it's worsening. So, with that i…

As a Canadian looking from the side lines, I have to add that the US isn't doing much better with Donald Trump. I definitely feel that the US is the instigator for the current political cooldown.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#285

Post by auganov »

Encourage everyone to boycott YC. I certainly won't be applying again.

It's funny to watch YC do this, the one time I was actually invited to interview with YC was when our Chinese co-founder submitted a rather fraudulent[0] application. Angry that we wouldn't participate in his fraud he disappeared and filed a frivolous lawsuit against us (which after many years we won).

China's tech growth is built on IP theft and protection by a murderous regime. It's a total antithesis of what made the Valley great. Big numbers put out by some people in China don't change that.

If YC plans to invest in local Mainland startups:

- ownership is going to tough, likely through dubious trickery

- these uncertain legal rights expose YC to strong political pressures, anybody that has vested interest in China knows it - if you want to have a chance at cashing out your better be in good graces with the CCP

- unethical behavior of YC pupils is inevitable, a PR nightmare in the making. "it's not the real YC, it's YC China, don't blame us!"

You've destroyed your brand, now good luck getting a dollar out of China.

And again, a necessary reminder I like to tell everyone: China is actively imprisoning and killing thousands of people for their religious beliefs. Censorship is nothing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go... Few people know it, I certainly didn't, I wish I have. Like many I've heard something about the Falun Gong, I've seen the signs but never bothered to looked into it. It's all real, it's big, almost Nazi scale persecution. Please share it with anybody that does business with China.

[0] because in China I guess that'd only be normal-fraudulent, right?

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#286

Post by nailer »

maxkwallace wrote: post #237
kaptain wrote: post #107

The political concerns are real. It's too cynical to say that YC just cares about money, though. There would be better ways to create an incubator than to do it like this, if that were the case. One obvious question that hasn't been raised is: "Why not base it in Taiwan?" It's still "China" (for some definition of China), you can still get access to the talent that you want (you just have to try a little harder), and…

Taiwan is not "China" for reasonable and informed definitions of China. Independent of that, to the best of my understanding: (1) The talent pools in Taiwan and China are different (2) The markets in Taiwan and China are very different Right now the Chinese market is more important than the Chinese talent pool, but both are important. Basing an accelerator in Taiwan would be good for Taiwan, but it would not meaningf…

> Taiwan is not "China" for reasonable and informed definitions of China.

Taiwan is literally the Republic of China. The leadership is descended from the same people who overcame the Japanese. Pretending the Communist Party has a monopoly on the word 'China' is uninformed and unreasonable.

Off topic, a better compromise would have been Hong Kong, inside the PRC with some degree of democracy, though less than originally promised in 1997.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#287

Post by ProAm »

pnathan wrote: post #283

This is a recognition that the Chinese world is a rising superpower, both in innovation and in politics. Reminds me to study Mandarin! I wish them all the best, and I hope that the interactions with the great qualities of YC produces an excellent step forward for China and its technologists.

> This is a recognition that the Chinese world is a rising superpower

To be fair this has been known since the early 90's maybe even late 80's

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#288

Post by erikb »

zavi wrote: post #210
erikb wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is a lot bigger market than the US. EU is slightly bigger. US is third. Maybe with extended markets (e.g. Central America and Canada for US, Eastern Europe for EU, Belt and Road area for China, US is number two). You need to consider several factors, like number of people, as well. A big problem for the US is that it is a litle off, while most other social/cultural areas are closely connected. For instance, Chi…

Nominal GDP is used to measure country market sizes, sorry.

First google result already says different: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/market-size.htm...

I woud assume it's not a term like "revenue" but more a general word. It's also not smart for your own analysis to assume a single value for it. If you write a business case for instance, it's quite smart to summarize how you size the market for your product/service as well.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#289

Post by claydavisss »

hguant wrote: post #282
claydavisss wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"very little Apple hardware" still means you own more Apple hardware than 95% of the world's population, including 99% of the people who manufacture it. but it sounds like you have rationalized this somehow, so why shouldn't everyone else?

This is a fallacious argument, akin to conservative talk show hosts dismissing the concerns of college students because they own iPhones. Just because you exist within a system does not invalidate your complaints about the system.

It is absolutely not "fallacious" - if you are going to moralize, then you need back it up with action.

The OP was not "complaining about the system" - he was making a claim that by doing business with China you are "importing repression". It is completely fair that someone who claims I am willfully "importing repression" should be held to the same standard.

OR, you can just go on believing that the rest of us are immoral thugs while you are the lone enlightened paragon of virtue who would gladly rebel against the odious powers that be...if only they would stop making such pretty toys!

I know, its all my fault

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#290

Post by baybal2 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #125
tanilama wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and you could still get access to the market you're targeting. This is not true. Taiwanese investment in China is considered 'external'. And Taiwan's talent reserve is no way to be considered as on par against mainland China. But that is not the point either, I think YC just wants an entity in China, not for the talents, but for the market. Under the risk of being downvoted, I have to say China has created some wor…

China has startups, they are definitely many high in quality, but they aren’t really world class in terms of talent used (almost completely Chinese) and markets targeted (ditto). China will have trouble getting its tech companies to compete abroad when they have closed off their own market so much. Likewise, until China embraces immigration rather than emigration, talent is unlikely to flock to China in any significa…

>Likewise, until China embraces immigration rather than emigration, talent is unlikely to flock to China in any significant numbers.

Isn't it the case already? In our company, the preference to host an overseas talent always goes to China's office for simplicity of immigration process. Secondary to that, I have to admit, is the significantly reduced chance of hostile talent poaching.

What was the reason you left China?

BTW. Ever crosses paths with Shanghai Bill of Slashdot fame?

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