From Father to Son, Last Words to Live by (2007) • Hacker News Board

Re: From Father to Son, Last Words to Live by (2007)

#61

Post by amvalo » Mon, Aug 13, 2018, 5:25 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #59

guessthejuice wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? The washingtonpost said that there was irrefutable evidence that hussein had WMDs and was working with al qaeda. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2003/02/06/i... The same washingtonpost that recently got caught lying to the american people about syrian gas attacks and tried to dupe us into invading another country. Next war that the lying media and politicians push, they and/or their…

We've banned both this account and the other one for repeatedly trolling HN.

I for one was glad to see this WaPo article linked. Good reminder.

Re: From Father to Son, Last Words to Live by (2007)

#62

Post by stanfordkid » Mon, Aug 13, 2018, 7:07 PM UTC

I think the sentimentality of family needs to be removed from discussions of war. I’m sure there were plenty of devout family men taking part in every mass genocide in history. Violence sucks — full stop, especially controversial violence that half the nation was against from the beginning.

Sad that this woman lost her husband, and son lost his father. She clearly loves him too much to question his judgement, but maybe she could speak from the podium of loss against unnecessary war. I’m not a fan of sentimental personal anecdotes being shared to a mass audience like this, but alas emotions rule the world. Hopefully we can fight the politics that led to this tragedy rather than lionizing his martyrdom.

Re: From Father to Son, Last Words to Live by (2007)

#63

Post by jpamata » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 3:22 AM UTC

monkeynotes wrote: post #35

uptownfunk wrote: post #9

This man is a hero. Not only because he served his country so honorably, but for the time, care, and consideration he took to codify his values and morals in his diary. This one hit me hard, especially now that I have a son. To think, there are so many children out there who will never see or get to meet their fathers again. I know it's not the same as a father, but I hope these kids find mentors or guides to try and…

Without judgment of this particular loving human; Why is it considered heroic to go to war without questioning the men sending you there? The war in Iraq was pointless and based on dubious logic which turned out to be a lie. Men considering going to another country far away to kill other men should think deeply about dedicating their bodies and family's futures to the fortunes of cowards. I obviously do not know this…

The US has a million troops, only around ~40,000 are deployed in Afghanistan, Iraq, Kuwait, and Syria[0]. The majority of the military are deployed elsewhere, serving either as a deterrent (such as those in South Korea) or help with nation building, foreign aid, and peacekeeping (ex. anti-piracy, protecting trade routes). There are those who are unfortunate enough to be sent by politicians to the war zone at one point of their career. And when that happens, you may not agree with the politics but it is still part of your duty to follow. There is no room in the military for going against commands, else it would render the organization ineffective.

Every country needs a military and whether you think that they are heroes or not, these are still people making a necessary sacrifice. Someone has to do it.

Oftentimes, the media likes to only show the wartime aspect of the military, making people think that those who join the military are there because they want to kill. Nothing could be any further from the truth.

[0] https://www.businessinsider.com/us-military-deployments-may-...

Re: From Father to Son, Last Words to Live by (2007)

#64

Post by davchana » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 1:17 PM UTC

baxtr wrote: post #21

davchana wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say "with", do you mean you write a letter & other person writes an answer letter in that same diary? E.g. with wife; does that means letters between you both in that diary?

Yes, that's what we do, but not on a daily basis. Usually, when I'm on a business trip, I either take the booklet with me or I leave it with her and she writes her down thoughts. Thinking of it, we had something like that in high school, where (usually girls) would use a single book with her best friend back and forth. We called it "Briefbuch" (letter book) in German.

Thanks :)

When I completed School & later College, our girl classmates had something called ScrapBook, where everybody will write in messages & good wishes for the owner of that book.

Re: From Father to Son, Last Words to Live by (2007)

#65

Post by Recurecur » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 7:19 PM UTC

monkeynotes wrote: post #35

uptownfunk wrote: post #9

This man is a hero. Not only because he served his country so honorably, but for the time, care, and consideration he took to codify his values and morals in his diary. This one hit me hard, especially now that I have a son. To think, there are so many children out there who will never see or get to meet their fathers again. I know it's not the same as a father, but I hope these kids find mentors or guides to try and…

Without judgment of this particular loving human; Why is it considered heroic to go to war without questioning the men sending you there? The war in Iraq was pointless and based on dubious logic which turned out to be a lie. Men considering going to another country far away to kill other men should think deeply about dedicating their bodies and family's futures to the fortunes of cowards. I obviously do not know this…

> Why is it considered heroic to go to war without questioning the men sending you there?

In the military, it is not your position to question the government. It is your duty to follow orders.

> The war in Iraq was pointless and based on dubious logic which turned out to be a lie.

It was certainly not "pointless". It was based on the following:

- Saddam was a bad actor who hated the US, and would readily provide materiel for use against the US

- Iraq was known to have stockpiles of WMD

- It was thought possible to transform Iraq from a dictatorship to a democracy that appreciated the US

None of those points is in doubt. Aside from a possible nuclear program, Iraq was known to have weaponized anthrax and various chemical agents. Our allies including Britain endorsed the same intelligence.

You might remember the celebrations in Baghdad when the US forces arrive and Saddam fled. Or the jubilation Iraqis showed after voting the first time. Time will tell how things work out in the long run, but it's hard to argue that Iraq is worse off today than it was under Saddam Hussein.

Has everything worked out perfectly? No, but there have been many sub-optimal moves since the war started, including BO pulling out prematurely and on an announced schedule.

Just remember, it's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback...

Re: From Father to Son, Last Words to Live by (2007)

#66

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 7:38 PM UTC

Recurecur wrote: post #65

monkeynotes wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without judgment of this particular loving human; Why is it considered heroic to go to war without questioning the men sending you there? The war in Iraq was pointless and based on dubious logic which turned out to be a lie. Men considering going to another country far away to kill other men should think deeply about dedicating their bodies and family's futures to the fortunes of cowards. I obviously do not know this…

> Why is it considered heroic to go to war without questioning the men sending you there? In the military, it is not your position to question the government. It is your duty to follow orders. > The war in Iraq was pointless and based on dubious logic which turned out to be a lie. It was certainly not "pointless". It was based on the following: - Saddam was a bad actor who hated the US, and would readily provide mate…

[deleted]

Re: From Father to Son, Last Words to Live by (2007)

#67

Post by zenbai » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 7:22 AM UTC

Recurecur wrote: post #65

monkeynotes wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without judgment of this particular loving human; Why is it considered heroic to go to war without questioning the men sending you there? The war in Iraq was pointless and based on dubious logic which turned out to be a lie. Men considering going to another country far away to kill other men should think deeply about dedicating their bodies and family's futures to the fortunes of cowards. I obviously do not know this…

> Why is it considered heroic to go to war without questioning the men sending you there? In the military, it is not your position to question the government. It is your duty to follow orders. > The war in Iraq was pointless and based on dubious logic which turned out to be a lie. It was certainly not "pointless". It was based on the following: - Saddam was a bad actor who hated the US, and would readily provide mate…

Woah, I guess you never heard of ISIS

Re: From Father to Son, Last Words to Live by (2007)

#68

Post by monkeynotes » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 1:16 PM UTC

Recurecur wrote: post #65

monkeynotes wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without judgment of this particular loving human; Why is it considered heroic to go to war without questioning the men sending you there? The war in Iraq was pointless and based on dubious logic which turned out to be a lie. Men considering going to another country far away to kill other men should think deeply about dedicating their bodies and family's futures to the fortunes of cowards. I obviously do not know this…

> Why is it considered heroic to go to war without questioning the men sending you there? In the military, it is not your position to question the government. It is your duty to follow orders. > The war in Iraq was pointless and based on dubious logic which turned out to be a lie. It was certainly not "pointless". It was based on the following: - Saddam was a bad actor who hated the US, and would readily provide mate…

Where to start here. Well, let me preface by saying much of everything we are discussing is hugely influenced by what and individual's principles and beliefs are, I don't expect to change minds, and I accept other people have other opinions, I just want to defend mine.

First - it's well known that no WMDs were found in Iraq[1], and with the publication of the Downing Street Memo[2] there is evidence that Bush's presidency went in likely knowing that. Bush just wanted war, with whatever justification he could find.

Saddam and his hatred of the US is no justification of war. Plenty of nations rather dislike the US, but you can't just go in and 'make' them like you with guns. As bad as Saddam was, the death toll and utter hell brought upon Iraq's citizens by the invasion to 'bring democracy' is at best as bad as Saddam's regime. Some studies suggest half a million civilian deaths as a result of the war[3].

And let's be honest, Iraq was a huge catalyst for complete chaos in the middle east, which to this day is ongoing. ISIS grew out of the vacuum left by US forces 'liberation' of Iraqi's people.

Jesus, what a fucking mess. Seriously, why am I even having to spell this out?

Possible nuclear program??!!?! Give me a break. They found corroded, unusable chemical weapons which the UN mostly already knew about. And all that crap was probably best left rotting in Iraq than burning, and harming US forces as they tried to move it.

Celebrations in Baghdad? I want to puke. Those poor people sold another lie, they were destined to suffer more.

Now, down to following orders. I get that the military only works if everyone follows orders, I really do. However I will not be ordered to murder children for 'the greater cause', be that my country or god. There is a line any man/woman should refuse to cross, in my opinion, and as long as men do not question those who give the orders you cannot claim to have principles.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WMD_conjecture_in_the_aftermat... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_Street_memo [3] https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/15/iraq-death-toll_n_...