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YC China and Qi Lu

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#231

Post by bitcurious »

singularity2001 wrote: post #197
google_censors wrote: post #192

It's amazing that a company that Paul Graham co-founded is getting into bed with an authoritarian government notorious for its human rights abuses. To succeed in China you can't go against the government. So is he going to be pushing as hard for political change in China as he is in the US, or will he remain silent as his company reaps the profits?

Believing in his good morals, the underlying hope might be to achieve change through subversion: If YC becomes popular in in China, people might visit news.ycombinator.com and find very sane liberal thinking and many shocking truths about their country.

Reddit was blocked by the Chinese firewall this month. The suspected reason is discussion of the Uyghur concentration camps. Shocking truths don’t last on the Chinese internet.

When YC is invested in China they won’t last on this website either.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#232

Post by DanielGee »

google_censors wrote: post #192

It's amazing that a company that Paul Graham co-founded is getting into bed with an authoritarian government notorious for its human rights abuses. To succeed in China you can't go against the government. So is he going to be pushing as hard for political change in China as he is in the US, or will he remain silent as his company reaps the profits?

Companies exist to make money. I think the tech community's biggest mistake was assuming that tech companies are moral agents. Of course tech companies ( "do no evil" ) had a hand in misleading us. But tech companies are no different than oil companies, pharma companies or movie studios. They want market share and money.

Maybe we should stop putting tech companies and tech leaders on a pedestal.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#233

Post by gdsdfe »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #47
gdsdfe wrote: post #35

Hahaha people talking about ethics are silly ... This is business in a market, potentially, at least 3x bigger than the current biggest market! Are you nuts? Everybody's gonna do business in China! Everybody! In some form or shape.

> Everybody's gonna do business in China! Everybody! In some form or shape. Well, if China lets them.

It will with time, once they have a stronger middle class with a better purchasing power.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#234

Post by tmoneymoney »

tcmb wrote: post #130
Leary wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taiwan was land that was forcibly colonized by the Han Chinese. The original inhabitants are Austronesian people [1] I think a better move would be to move YC China to Vancouver, given the high density of rich Chinese expats in Vancouver, and its status of being in a liberal, western democracy. [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese_indigenous_peoples [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Canada

Isn't Canada also land that was forcibly colonized, by the French and British?

Lol

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#235

Post by gdsdfe »

jumelles wrote: post #45
gdsdfe wrote: post #35

Hahaha people talking about ethics are silly ... This is business in a market, potentially, at least 3x bigger than the current biggest market! Are you nuts? Everybody's gonna do business in China! Everybody! In some form or shape.

Caring about human rights is silly?

That's not what I am saying ... It's silly to think that 'investors' will ignore such a giant opportunity just because there's human rights issues. It's just naive!

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#236

Post by swaggyBoatswain »

bnomb3 wrote: post #134
kaptain wrote: post #107

The political concerns are real. It's too cynical to say that YC just cares about money, though. There would be better ways to create an incubator than to do it like this, if that were the case. One obvious question that hasn't been raised is: "Why not base it in Taiwan?" It's still "China" (for some definition of China), you can still get access to the talent that you want (you just have to try a little harder), and…

> "Why not base it in Taiwan?" It's still "China" (for some definition of China), you can still get access to the talent that you want (you just have to try a little harder), and you could still get access to the market you're targeting. Native Chinese here. I don't think this is the case. It's not even close to ideal to base in Taiwan given the political environment between the straits nowadays. The policies are ver…

Adding onto this, in China you also have to deal with the Great Firewall as well

The apps used in Taiwan and China are significantly different. In China, its anything owned by tencent, baidu, or alibaba.

The app market in Taiwan uses mostly English offerings (google, facebook, instagram) with a combination of Asianic/Non-china based apps including Line, which is similar to Whatsapp or Wechat.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#237

Post by maxkwallace »

kaptain wrote: post #107

The political concerns are real. It's too cynical to say that YC just cares about money, though. There would be better ways to create an incubator than to do it like this, if that were the case. One obvious question that hasn't been raised is: "Why not base it in Taiwan?" It's still "China" (for some definition of China), you can still get access to the talent that you want (you just have to try a little harder), and…

Taiwan is not "China" for reasonable and informed definitions of China. Independent of that, to the best of my understanding:

(1) The talent pools in Taiwan and China are different

(2) The markets in Taiwan and China are very different

Right now the Chinese market is more important than the Chinese talent pool, but both are important. Basing an accelerator in Taiwan would be good for Taiwan, but it would not meaningfully engage with the Chinese market or talent pool. It's too late in the game for that.

Even if YC's ultimately goal were political and humanitarian it would still be more effective to base the accelerator in China and use the additional leverage gained from being in China to better pursue those goals.

Disclosure: I am an American currently living in Taiwan. (edits: grammar)

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#238

Post by che_shirecat »

Leary wrote: post #124
kaptain wrote: post #107

The political concerns are real. It's too cynical to say that YC just cares about money, though. There would be better ways to create an incubator than to do it like this, if that were the case. One obvious question that hasn't been raised is: "Why not base it in Taiwan?" It's still "China" (for some definition of China), you can still get access to the talent that you want (you just have to try a little harder), and…

Taiwan was land that was forcibly colonized by the Han Chinese. The original inhabitants are Austronesian people [1] I think a better move would be to move YC China to Vancouver, given the high density of rich Chinese expats in Vancouver, and its status of being in a liberal, western democracy. [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese_indigenous_peoples [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Canada

The United States was land that was forcibly colonized by the British, French, Spanish, and Dutch. The original inhabitants are Native American people [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Amer...

> ???

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#239

Post by xhinker »

PaulHoule wrote: post #221

Of all places they could go. China appearing to succeed at a time when democracy is on the ropes is a dangerous trend for democracy. When you import goods from China, you import repression. Short-termed capitalists might think the repression applies just to workers, but China is a country with no human rights, no property rights, no rule of law. The Chinese government reserves the right to take anything you "own" the…

extremism comments. democracy is the product of objective and reason. your comments don't deserve democracy.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#240

Post by erikb »

google_censors wrote: post #192

It's amazing that a company that Paul Graham co-founded is getting into bed with an authoritarian government notorious for its human rights abuses. To succeed in China you can't go against the government. So is he going to be pushing as hard for political change in China as he is in the US, or will he remain silent as his company reaps the profits?

If he wants goverment support he probably is stealing IP from the american side and YC is either naive or knows this very well but is willing to trade IP for cashflow.
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