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Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

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Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#111

Post by akoncius »

mpodlasin wrote: post #29

It's funny how my experience is exactly reverse. Since I joined startup I learn much less, since we can't afford experimentation and there are no other front end devs here, so I don't get a chance to learn backend stuff, since someone has to do front end part. I also hoped to learn some business stuff, but most of it happens behind closed doors between founders and investors while you code boring crud application.

yeah, quite similar situation in my experience too. Usually you need to implement features ASAP, so rarely you have time to do it properly, so you cut corners , implement it , and move on to another burning task just to meet deadlines for next investment round or something like that.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#112

Post by gaius »

jonny_eh wrote: post #66

A big advantage to working at a BigCo is how it looks on your résume, or the "About Us" page of your own future startup. I've seen so many hiring managers trip over themselves to hire former FANG employees, without knowing anything else about them. It's like graduating from an ivy league school. There's also way more networking opportunities at big companies, merely because there's so many more people.

It's like graduating from an ivy league school.

It is exactly like that. An optimal start to a career would be graduate from a top 10 college, 2 years at Google and/or 2 years at Goldman Sachs. That person would be guaranteed an interview anywhere they wanted probably for the rest of their careers. Not saying it’s good or bad but there is no denying the power of that kind of signal.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#113

Post by james1071 »

kodablah wrote: post #44
nostrademons wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for one of those for a couple years that had started as a "startup" when I did my internships with them but had morphed into "slow-growing lifestyle business" by the time I left. I'd argue that you get most of the downsides of both with few of the upsides. You don't actually get stability with this setup; you're a couple of customer cancellations away from layoffs at any time. There is no career advancement.…

> You pretty much don't have a shot at getting rich I agree with most of your points except this one as it's very situational. Maybe not as an intern, but having real albeit small equity in one of these tiny things can be negotiated, and they can get sold. Unlikely, sure, but the possibility is there. But in general it's about what you're optimizing for. You're points are right for optimizing for intra-company career…

I think there might be a lesson in that people who made their money as employees in startups that get sold generally don't repeat the process. They more often become investors.

That's diversification, all the upside and none of the trouble of actually doing any work.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#114

Post by james1071 »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #71
jamiepenney wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get a lot of "oh yep, you look the type". Ouch.

I get a lot of "you're very social for a computer person". I guess it's a compliment, but it feels a little backhanded.

not a compliment.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#115

Post by vonmoltke »

bradlys wrote: post #72
justin wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. I guess I've always taken choosing who you work with for granted. That being said if you join a startup you don't exactly get to choose who you work with any more than if you join a team at a big company.

With a startup, you have choice before you even join. You frequently know who you'll be working with. Not deeply but you've met them and can make some kind of assessment (to the same degree that they do about you). I can filter out companies when I meet the people and know they're not what I want to work with. At a big company, I am saying yes to a company - not the people. Team selection is later (if at all) and you…

> At a big company, I am saying yes to a company - not the people. Team selection is later (if at all) and you can be a victim of circumstance.

Only a few companies work this way, at least for experienced hires.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#116

Post by dagw »

bradlys wrote: post #72
justin wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. I guess I've always taken choosing who you work with for granted. That being said if you join a startup you don't exactly get to choose who you work with any more than if you join a team at a big company.

With a startup, you have choice before you even join. You frequently know who you'll be working with. Not deeply but you've met them and can make some kind of assessment (to the same degree that they do about you). I can filter out companies when I meet the people and know they're not what I want to work with. At a big company, I am saying yes to a company - not the people. Team selection is later (if at all) and you…

At the last three big companies I've worked at I was directly hired by my (future) boss to work directly in his team. In all three cases at least one (future) co-worker was involved in the interview.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#117

Post by retsibsi »

james1071 wrote: post #114
toomanybeersies wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get a lot of "you're very social for a computer person". I guess it's a compliment, but it feels a little backhanded.

not a compliment.

I dunno, I know a lot of 'compliments' are nothing of the sort, but I can see this one being well-intended. It's not actually saying anything bad about the target, just awkwardly pointing out that they don't really fit a negative stereotype. And because 'socialness' isn't a quality where more is always better, it doesn't have quite the same damning-with-faint-praise vibe as it would if it were about, say, intelligence or looks.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#118

Post by amyjess »

nostrademons wrote: post #42
kodablah wrote: post #24

> If you’re seriously considering both options — a traditional company and a startup — here are some points to consider. There are so many definitions of "startup", but given the common one of "VC funded trying to get big", I'd say there's a third company type between these two I dub a "starting-up". It's an early traditional company that's in the black but is not poised to go through the roof or become bloated with…

I worked for one of those for a couple years that had started as a "startup" when I did my internships with them but had morphed into "slow-growing lifestyle business" by the time I left. I'd argue that you get most of the downsides of both with few of the upsides. You don't actually get stability with this setup; you're a couple of customer cancellations away from layoffs at any time. There is no career advancement.…

I once worked at a company exactly like this, and I agree entirely. It was awful, and I'm glad I quit. In fact, it was the only company I've ever quit (of the four companies I've worked at, I got laid off from two others, and I'm still at the fourth).

It's not worth it. The company was resource-starved, management had no experience managing people whatsoever and ranged from "clueless" to "abusive", and the owner/CEO was a notorious cheapskate who underpaid us (when I left, I found out I was making 3/4 the salary I should have been), refused to provide any kind of health insurance, and was so paranoid about losing control of the company that he only sought funding from angel investors and refused to either seek VC or give employees equity. When I worked there, we were in constant demo mode. We were always prepping for a big demo for one small-time investor or another. I think we spent more time on demos for investors than we spent supporting customers. Hell, one time we came within a hair of being on Shark Tank; it ended up falling through because of bureaucratic reasons, but after it fell through I was told that the owner/CEO had no intention of ever accepting money from any of the VCs on the show and just wanted to be on the show for the media attention.

Oh yeah, and when our landlord began discriminating against me for being transgender, the company just rolled over and refused to provide support. Why? Because they'd gotten a massive discount on rent because they were the very first tenants in a building that had just reopened after years of being closed, and they were afraid to do anything that might kill the deal because they wouldn't have been able to afford rent anywhere else downtown (and they insisted on being downtown because the owner/CEO's son, the CTO, lived there and wanted to be able to walk to work). Never mind that they would've had a space three times larger for the same money if they'd just set up shop in a suburban office park like every other tech startup in Dallas. I had to get the city involved myself, and the owner/CEO almost sabotaged my case during one informal mediation session (I ended up winning, by the way).

When I quit at the end of 2014, we were only marginally larger than when I started in early 2012. That's two and three quarter years of my life I'll never get back. My only consolation is that I'm still friends with a few of my coworkers from that period of my life.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#119

Post by james1071 »

retsibsi wrote: post #117
james1071 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not a compliment.

I dunno, I know a lot of 'compliments' are nothing of the sort, but I can see this one being well-intended. It's not actually saying anything bad about the target, just awkwardly pointing out that they don't really fit a negative stereotype. And because 'socialness' isn't a quality where more is always better, it doesn't have quite the same damning-with-faint-praise vibe as it would if it were about, say, intelligenc…

Pointing out that someone does not really fit a negative stereotype will ussally not be perceived as a positive.

I said usually, because it is possible to convey different meanings by tone of voice and other non-verbal means.

But, based on the words alone, it will not be interpreted positively.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#120

Post by scarface74 »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #71
jamiepenney wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get a lot of "oh yep, you look the type". Ouch.

I get a lot of "you're very social for a computer person". I guess it's a compliment, but it feels a little backhanded.

It could be worse....

I get both the “I’m not like most computer people” and

“You don’t sound Black”. That’s usually from old White southern people. At that point I usually just do the southern retort “Bless ya heart”

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bless%20your...

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