Bullshit-sensitivity predicts prosocial behavior • Hacker News Board

Re: Bullshit-sensitivity predicts prosocial behavior

#121

Post by red75prime » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 11:39 AM UTC

waterhouse wrote: post #54

duopixel wrote: post #19

A simple self-experiment if you haven't read the paper, find which of these sentences are bullshit. Answer in order without reading further ahead, and don't go back to change your answers (as to replicate experimental conditions). * 1. A river cuts through a rock, not because of its power but it's persistence. 2. The hidden meaning transforms the abstract beauty. 3. The future elucidates irrational facts for the seek…

Expert steelmanner here. This is fun. 1. The river cuts through a rock because its power is above some threshold where it causes more than zero damage, and the damage multiplied by the persistence (time spent) is what it does to the rock. (Compare the photoelectric effect; if the photons are too weak, they don't do anything no matter how many you have.) Of course, a scientist probably wouldn't use that language. 2. A…

> Expert steelmanner here

You are risking DoS attack, steelmanning statements from untrusted sources.

Re: Bullshit-sensitivity predicts prosocial behavior

#122

Post by Broken_Hippo » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 11:40 AM UTC

scns wrote: post #87

peteretep wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Also: > 2. The hidden meaning transforms the abstract beauty. Describes reading the description of an artwork at a Modern Art gallery pretty well

IMO it is only Art if you feel something immediately. If you have to read some description to get the meaning, it is only pretentious and not Art for me.

Just curious: Why does art need to make anyone feel anything?

Do you feel something if you see a landscape, portrait, or still life? Do you think they are still art? In a similar thread, if you stare at something abstract, if it draws you in to gaze on it because it is a cool design even if it brings forth no feeling, does it make it art or not?

Do you understand hidden meanings from 200 years ago that would have been obvious to viewers at the time? Do you still consider it art even if you have to read about the meanings built into the art?

(Art is full of pretentious bullshit, and I'm of the opinion that assigning meaning or requiring a meaning of art is, of itself, pretentious.)

Re: Bullshit-sensitivity predicts prosocial behavior

#123

Post by Broken_Hippo » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 11:41 AM UTC

newsbinator wrote: post #103

__david__ wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Howso? I don't see how either health or tolerance is related to creativity… Also why only future creativity?

It's really hard to be creative if all your attention is pulled by your body failing, impending death, and the inadequacies of everyone and everything around you. It's a lot easier to be a content consumer while in poor physical/mental health than to be a content creator.

For some folks, that's true. Others it simply gives a different vibe to their creativity because their mind is pulled to such things.

Re: Bullshit-sensitivity predicts prosocial behavior

#124

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 11:44 AM UTC

duopixel wrote: post #19

A simple self-experiment if you haven't read the paper, find which of these sentences are bullshit. Answer in order without reading further ahead, and don't go back to change your answers (as to replicate experimental conditions). * 1. A river cuts through a rock, not because of its power but it's persistence. 2. The hidden meaning transforms the abstract beauty. 3. The future elucidates irrational facts for the seek…

[deleted]

Re: Bullshit-sensitivity predicts prosocial behavior

#125

Post by O2F2 » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 11:46 AM UTC

duopixel wrote: post #19

A simple self-experiment if you haven't read the paper, find which of these sentences are bullshit. Answer in order without reading further ahead, and don't go back to change your answers (as to replicate experimental conditions). * 1. A river cuts through a rock, not because of its power but it's persistence. 2. The hidden meaning transforms the abstract beauty. 3. The future elucidates irrational facts for the seek…

  1 False, there is no persistence in the absence of power
  2 False, the hidden/unknown has no transformative effect unless it is revealed
  3 Missing information, what are 'irrational facts'?
  4 Highly debatable, situational
  5 False, creativity is not bound to either health or tolerance but modified through their experience.
  6 Flowery way to say we like to shift perspective unto flaws that are not our own? We certainly have a track record when it comes to this behavior. Still not universally true.
  7 You cannot be forced to learn. Context dependent.
  8 Universal observations? Movement as in 'through life' (experience)? Our observations are contextualized by past experiences. Unsure about this sentence.
  9 The person who has never tried anything literally died in the womb.
  10 Missing context.
  11 Being in pain is painful, 'imagined pain' makes no sense.
  12 What, missing context.
  13 What is 'the inherent experience of the universe'? Can the unexplainable touch anything?
  14 Correct, being temped can be interpreted to be done unto you, not falling for temptation is the act of resisting it. There is *a difference*.

edit: typos

Re: Bullshit-sensitivity predicts prosocial behavior

#126

Post by js8 » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 11:53 AM UTC

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #122

scns wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO it is only Art if you feel something immediately. If you have to read some description to get the meaning, it is only pretentious and not Art for me.

Just curious: Why does art need to make anyone feel anything? Do you feel something if you see a landscape, portrait, or still life? Do you think they are still art? In a similar thread, if you stare at something abstract, if it draws you in to gaze on it because it is a cool design even if it brings forth no feeling, does it make it art or not? Do you understand hidden meanings from 200 years ago that would have bee…

I think art should make feel at least someone something in order to be considered as art.

That is not the same as having a meaning, though. For example, Mandelbrot set makes me feel "it is wonderful", but it doesn't need to have any meaning (technically, it is a solution to some equation, so it has meaning, but you don't have to know the meaning in order to feel that something).

Re: Bullshit-sensitivity predicts prosocial behavior

#127

Post by Devon64327 » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 11:58 AM UTC

I noticed most of the bullshit phrases used a lot of big, _fancy_ words. Not sure if this was covered later in the paper, but it could be this study identified a correlation between language skills and prosocial behavior.

Someone who's never encountered words like elucidate could be dazzled into believing it describes something profound. Whereas people who are familiar with the word would recognize it's use is awkward and meaningless.

I don't think it would be a big leap to theorize that an effective education correlates with prosocial behavior.

Re: Bullshit-sensitivity predicts prosocial behavior

#128

Post by muzani » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 12:00 PM UTC

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #116

>> Bullshit-sensitivity is the ability to distinguish pseudo-profound bullshit sentences (e.g. “Your movement transforms universal observations”) from genuinely profound sentences (e.g. “The person who never made a mistake never tried something new”). Why is the second sentence "profound"? If I were to say it sounds like bullshit to me (it actually kind of does?) what would be the counter-argument, other than "we ask…

I think the author meant that "profound" is something that takes a lot of thought to understand, whereas "bullshit" is something that has no meaning.If you find a profound meaning in it, you're "bullshit-insensitive".

While the second sentence isn't very profound, it does have a meaning and it's used as an example because most people will understand it.

Re: Bullshit-sensitivity predicts prosocial behavior

#129

Post by Devon64327 » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 12:00 PM UTC

O2F2 wrote: post #125

duopixel wrote: post #19

A simple self-experiment if you haven't read the paper, find which of these sentences are bullshit. Answer in order without reading further ahead, and don't go back to change your answers (as to replicate experimental conditions). * 1. A river cuts through a rock, not because of its power but it's persistence. 2. The hidden meaning transforms the abstract beauty. 3. The future elucidates irrational facts for the seek…

1 False, there is no persistence in the absence of power 2 False, the hidden/unknown has no transformative effect unless it is revealed 3 Missing information, what are 'irrational facts'? 4 Highly debatable, situational 5 False, creativity is not bound to either health or tolerance but modified through their experience. 6 Flowery way to say we like to shift perspective unto flaws that are not our own? We certainly ha…

Now that you've participated in the study, how would you self-evaluate your level of prosocial behavior?

Re: Bullshit-sensitivity predicts prosocial behavior

#130

Post by sophistication » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 12:02 PM UTC

solarkraft wrote: post #119

sophistication wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only sentence that confused me is this one: > 3. The future elucidates irrational facts for the seeking person. I'm not a native English speaker, so I might be wrong, but I'm reading this as "the future will more likely reveal the truth to those who are open-minded" which seems to be too profound to be bullshit. Of course, "irrational fact" is an awkward way to refer to false beliefs, but awkwardness≠bullshit.

But a belief isn't a fact.

That's why I described it as "awkward". It could even be poetic, an ellipsis of "irrational facts [that people believe in]", or an elliptical reversal of "facts [that people] irrational[ly believe in]".