Twitter Suspends Alex Jones for Seven Days Over Tweet • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitter Suspends Alex Jones for Seven Days Over Tweet

#31

Post by teamk » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 10:28 AM UTC

nailer wrote: post #27

ceejayoz wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not aware of any such distinction in the law. The more significant legal concept would be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group , I'd imagine. "Far right" isn't on the list. (Neither is far left, incidentally.)

Is Alex Jones far right? From what I've seen he's insane (intergalactic pedophiles etc) and right wing, but not inciting race war or anything you'd expect from US far right groups. Maybe I'm wrong and he does, I've just never seen it.

Right wing and conspiracy oriented, but not racist, no.

Re: Twitter Suspends Alex Jones for Seven Days Over Tweet

#32

Post by nasoieu » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 10:28 AM UTC

Jacqued wrote: post #8

skrebbel wrote: post #2

I'm curious about how this is happening in America, of all places. As a European, I've always wondered (with a certain hint of jealousy, I might add) at the USA's absolute freedom of speech. People like the Westboro Baptist Church would've certainly been blocked from protesting here in the Netherlands. At the same time, it's now companies that are very American, both by origin and by culture, that are (letting themse…

I must say I have not been jealous of the US in this regard. In my opinion the state should be able to silence fascists and neo-nazis and jail them for hate speech. Unlike the US, people in Europe have experienced first hand what happens when you tolerate and enable them. Also I don't think you can call it "absolute freedom of speech" as some speech, like calls for murder of the usual fire in a theatre exemple, are i…

(Eastern) Europe has also experienced what happens when communists are in charge, yet communists are not being persecuted in any way, while fascists or nazis are. Something else is going on. Case in point: this comment is being downvoted without any explanation.

Re: Twitter Suspends Alex Jones for Seven Days Over Tweet

#33

Post by ramblerman » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 10:29 AM UTC

Jacqued wrote: post #8

skrebbel wrote: post #2

I'm curious about how this is happening in America, of all places. As a European, I've always wondered (with a certain hint of jealousy, I might add) at the USA's absolute freedom of speech. People like the Westboro Baptist Church would've certainly been blocked from protesting here in the Netherlands. At the same time, it's now companies that are very American, both by origin and by culture, that are (letting themse…

I must say I have not been jealous of the US in this regard. In my opinion the state should be able to silence fascists and neo-nazis and jail them for hate speech. Unlike the US, people in Europe have experienced first hand what happens when you tolerate and enable them. Also I don't think you can call it "absolute freedom of speech" as some speech, like calls for murder of the usual fire in a theatre exemple, are i…

Hate speech is a slippery slope, it's ill defined and you grant an awful lot of power to the people who get to 'define' the term.

A critique of islam could be considered 'hate speech'.

On the other hand I do agree that calls for violence/murder should indeed be punishable and are also far better defined to be taken up as law.

Re: Twitter Suspends Alex Jones for Seven Days Over Tweet

#34

Post by zavi » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 10:30 AM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #2

I'm curious about how this is happening in America, of all places. As a European, I've always wondered (with a certain hint of jealousy, I might add) at the USA's absolute freedom of speech. People like the Westboro Baptist Church would've certainly been blocked from protesting here in the Netherlands. At the same time, it's now companies that are very American, both by origin and by culture, that are (letting themse…

Most users are outside of the US for these companies.

Re: Twitter Suspends Alex Jones for Seven Days Over Tweet

#35

Post by Jacqued » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 10:30 AM UTC

ForHackernews wrote: post #23

Jacqued wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way it makes sense is that "right-wing nutjob" is not a protected characteristic, whereas race & sexual orientation are protected.

Religion is also a protected category, for what it's worth. Nevertheless, many people disagree with allowing a religious loophole to discriminate against gay customers.

That means you can't be discriminated against on the basis of your religion, not that you can discriminate against other people because of your religion though, right? Just like eg. being gay does not allow you to discriminate against black people.

I know it's more complicated in practice because the problem is political and other factors come into play.

Re: Twitter Suspends Alex Jones for Seven Days Over Tweet

#36

Post by Radim » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 10:31 AM UTC

Jacqued wrote: post #8

skrebbel wrote: post #2

I'm curious about how this is happening in America, of all places. As a European, I've always wondered (with a certain hint of jealousy, I might add) at the USA's absolute freedom of speech. People like the Westboro Baptist Church would've certainly been blocked from protesting here in the Netherlands. At the same time, it's now companies that are very American, both by origin and by culture, that are (letting themse…

I must say I have not been jealous of the US in this regard. In my opinion the state should be able to silence fascists and neo-nazis and jail them for hate speech. Unlike the US, people in Europe have experienced first hand what happens when you tolerate and enable them. Also I don't think you can call it "absolute freedom of speech" as some speech, like calls for murder of the usual fire in a theatre exemple, are i…

Isn't that the point though? Europe has experienced first hand not only "national socialism" (nazism), but also another type of socialism — communism. Still legal though, and going strong in Europe.

It's a grim comparison, but communism has actually produced a higher body count that nazism and fascism combined.

That US had traditionally granted free speech to all kinds of extremists, no matter the -ism, was truly remarkable and unique. Definitely a cause for wonder (even jealousy like OP says).

And the way they found to circumvent that pesky constitutional constraint by having mega-corp-in-bed-with-gvt monopolies do the dirty work, without breaking the letter of the law, is remarkable again. An elegant "hack".

Re: Twitter Suspends Alex Jones for Seven Days Over Tweet

#37

Post by kylesellas » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 10:31 AM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #2

I'm curious about how this is happening in America, of all places. As a European, I've always wondered (with a certain hint of jealousy, I might add) at the USA's absolute freedom of speech. People like the Westboro Baptist Church would've certainly been blocked from protesting here in the Netherlands. At the same time, it's now companies that are very American, both by origin and by culture, that are (letting themse…

I'm all for freedom of speech even if that speech includes ideas I vehemently disagree with (even hate speech). However, when speech incites physical violence and can be viewed as a legitimate threat, then it needs to be shut down.

Parents of children who were lost during Sandy Hook received physical threats and death threats because of Jones' comments. That's the line where free speech should be censored.

Re: Twitter Suspends Alex Jones for Seven Days Over Tweet

#38

Post by ern » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 10:31 AM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #2

I'm curious about how this is happening in America, of all places. As a European, I've always wondered (with a certain hint of jealousy, I might add) at the USA's absolute freedom of speech. People like the Westboro Baptist Church would've certainly been blocked from protesting here in the Netherlands. At the same time, it's now companies that are very American, both by origin and by culture, that are (letting themse…

This seems to be a common misconception outside of the United States. The First Amendment applies to the government, not to private entities.

Re: Twitter Suspends Alex Jones for Seven Days Over Tweet

#39

Post by poisonborz » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 10:32 AM UTC

beberlei wrote: post #20

poisonborz wrote: post #11

This whole ordeal is a good example how f'd up the current internet infrastructure is. For a decade or so it just seems like the beginnings of a megacorp-ruled Blade Runner-ish world. While companies have all the right to have control over whatever on their platforms, there just isn't a well known unfiltered, unmoderated, "real" spot on the internet anymore that is known to all - just some niche spots requiring techn…

In the 90s and early 2000s you had to search for the nieche content as well or know where it was located. Hundrets of different phpBBs or other forums hidden from "uninitated" people. The simplicity of central platform just has all the users going there, because they don't want to search for hours to find communities to participate in. infowars is still available at infowars.com, they just can't use the platform and…

The majority of people only access these distribution platforms. The "they still have a website" argument equals to "in a dictatorship, you still have a home and you can say anything between its walls, people can come to you and listen". The internet is / should be much more than that.

I always found "disapproval by removal/banning" to be absurd. The true way of them not gaining ground is by educating people. Yes, it's a much, much harder way. Yet it's infinitely more fair, and probably the only way to a healthy society.

Re: Twitter Suspends Alex Jones for Seven Days Over Tweet

#40

Post by teamk » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 10:33 AM UTC

codemusings wrote: post #30

teamk wrote: post #6

Its pretty insane that public businesses are forbidden from discrimination on most grounds (political views, religious views, etc) of who it employs, or who can enter their business, but its perfectly fine for FB, Google, Apple, Twitter, etc., to completely control the content of the conversation on their platforms. It doesn't make sense that as a baker I can be forced to bake gay wedding cakes, or as a Restaurant ow…

> It doesn't make sense that as a baker I can be forced to bake gay wedding cakes, or as a Restaurant owner I can't open a 'straight white people only' restaurant [...] What is wrong with you? What happened to you as a child that made you think this form of discrimination is even remotely acceptable?

What I believe should be legal and what I believe should be done (by decent people) are different questions.