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Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

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Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#91

Post by InfamousSub »

enraged_camel wrote: post #69
rjeli wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most of it happens behind closed doors between founders and investors Lack of transparency is bad. If you care about it, leave. Find a founder who doesn't think they're better than you.

That seems to be quite a leap from “meetings with investors happen behind closed doors” to “the founders think they are better than you.” There are certain things that should be discussed in the open, and certain things behind closed doors.

>and certain things behind closed doors.

Such as?

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#92

Post by gnulinux »

TomMckenny wrote: post #37

> ...because they just wanted to work on interesting frontier projects... This is the exact reason I have exclusively sought out startups in the past. But quite frankly the Bay Area is simply to expensive to do that anymore. I deeply miss that life and still tinker with side projects. But if that city can not solve it's cost of living crisis, there will continue to be a smaller and smaller pool of people that can aff…

I came to Boston to work in a startup. I had the same exact problem as you. I was just too curious about fast paced startup life and wanted to experience this. Boston is not that better than the Bay Area (in fact fresh food and wine are more expensive than what I found in Berkeley) but it's relatively better and I have a pretty good living standard and I can save more money than I care. Startup life has been very stressful so far for me. I definitely learn a lot and it's tons of !!!FUN!!! but I'm thinking maybe in a year or two I'll go back to the Bay for a larger, more stable company.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#93

Post by gnulinux »

strikelaserclaw wrote: post #6

how does one find startups to work for? I enjoy intensity, chaos, and learning in my job and my big corp job is just not providing that. I'm planning on moving to one of the tech hubs next year and trying to work at a startup of sorts, not sure where to start

Find a startup that's actually trying to solve a problem. "Uber but for college kids" is not a problem. E.g. "how do you make aviation safer" is an actual problem and if you can find a startup attacking this problem using technology, it might be interesting to work with. Imho -- I'm currently working in a startup solving what I believe to be a real problem -- it's a fun ride to work in a startup, it's stressful but you learn a lot. I recently graduated from college (UC Berkeley) and I can't say my learning muscles found time to relax. It's all about what problems you can solve.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#94

Post by telltruth »

Just love Justin's "no BS" style. When I see folks straight out of college try to get hired at FANG (or even worse, tier 2/3 companies), I feel sorry for them. They would have little clue about getting in to daily grind that sucks their soul away little by little for some whims of incompetent higher ups. At starups, you would get in to even more grind but it's just of different kind and everything you learn and experience would be 2X-10X faster. If you are straight out of college and try to join a company with > 1000 people, you are not doing yourself a favor. On the other hand, if you have kids, mortgage and car payments then FANG is your best friend.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#95

Post by mbesto »

nostrademons wrote: post #42
kodablah wrote: post #24

> If you’re seriously considering both options — a traditional company and a startup — here are some points to consider. There are so many definitions of "startup", but given the common one of "VC funded trying to get big", I'd say there's a third company type between these two I dub a "starting-up". It's an early traditional company that's in the black but is not poised to go through the roof or become bloated with…

I worked for one of those for a couple years that had started as a "startup" when I did my internships with them but had morphed into "slow-growing lifestyle business" by the time I left. I'd argue that you get most of the downsides of both with few of the upsides. You don't actually get stability with this setup; you're a couple of customer cancellations away from layoffs at any time. There is no career advancement.…

> you're a couple of customer cancellations away from layoffs at any time

These are WAY more rare than you think.

For the record, I've worked 50+ of these types of businesses and if the company chugs along for 10 years, they're pretty safe bets.

> I wouldn't recommend making a career out of it, though.

Hopefully this doesn't come as too snarky, but I wouldn't recommend taking advice from someone who has had one anecdotal experience with something.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#96

Post by mbesto »

kodablah wrote: post #24

> If you’re seriously considering both options — a traditional company and a startup — here are some points to consider. There are so many definitions of "startup", but given the common one of "VC funded trying to get big", I'd say there's a third company type between these two I dub a "starting-up". It's an early traditional company that's in the black but is not poised to go through the roof or become bloated with…

> There are so many definitions of "startup"

This is a bigger problem than most people think, especially when entering the job market. The nomenclature is so ubiquitous now, that it's actually really hard to determine what type of companies are. It also means many young impressionable people are duped into thinking they are at the "next big thing"TM

Personally I like to stick with traditional business verticals: media, telecom, retail (e-com), business services, etc.

and then assign the level of tech enabled:

- Back office IT supported

- Tech enabled

- Tech led (aka what's commonly known as a "software company")

Lastly, I'll argue this until my hair falls out - there is no such thing as a "tech" vertical, and therefore the idea that "tech startup" is an industry is always mind boggling to me.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#97

Post by ian0 »

kodablah wrote: post #24

> If you’re seriously considering both options — a traditional company and a startup — here are some points to consider. There are so many definitions of "startup", but given the common one of "VC funded trying to get big", I'd say there's a third company type between these two I dub a "starting-up". It's an early traditional company that's in the black but is not poised to go through the roof or become bloated with…

I worked for one of these and really enjoyed the experience. I would have earned a lot more working in other places, it was bumpy at times, but I don't regret it in the slightest.

It was great to work for a company that you really wanted to see succeed. Not because of some overhyped mission, but just wanting to see this small group of people do well.

Also companies like this are not used to employees in "startup-mode" but yet most have 1 or 2 that are. For them, it can be a great learning experience and still small enough to feel your contributions. Just because your not in hyper-drive doesn't mean you cant be innovative and punch above your weight.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#98

Post by fyfy18 »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #59
marsrover wrote: post #30

I’ve learned much more at a normal company (1) than startups (2). I think giving people jobs they’re unqualified for is a large part of that.

I've worked at several startups and some big companies. Doing things you've never done before, and being thrown into the brink is I think the best opportunity to learn. This happens without necessarily being pushed into roles, merely by the scope of activities one might be involved in. You can work at a large company, as an Engineer, and literally never learn how a company actually works. A lot of things that go on a…

> A lot of things that go on at big companies are dumb - but so many people there have no context for knowing one way or another, they think it's normal. What they are 'learning' is bad behaviours and some things on courses etc..

Working at a startup can be exactly the same. Especially if it’s staffed by inexperienced people full of ego :-)

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#99

Post by throwaway66666 »

octorian wrote: post #82
leetcrew wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ah okay, I always sort of imagined it would be like that in SF. I live in a metro area that is not as tech-oriented. when I tell people I'm a software engineer at parties, the only thing they find impressive is that I actually have a full-time job.

When I used to live in a "normal" part of the country, telling people I'm a Software Engineer would usually lead to one of two things: 1. They'd pivot to asking me where I worked (which I didn't feel comfortable sharing with a random stranger, since I worked for a small enough place that it felt a little too specific) 2. They'd lump me in with the annoying IT guy who fixed their stupid Windows issues at work. Now tha…

I am genuinely curious about the tech start-ups that give you "street-cred" in SF. At most of the places I hang out at they dislike techies and blame on them the rising rent prices, monoculture, in general the cultural demise of the city.

Actually at most parties or bars I have to "hide" that I work in tech, or come to terms with "that guy who works in tech... but hey he's ok, unlike the rest of the lot".

So, I 'm honestly wondering where you guys get high fives for being part of a unicorn around here! (referring mostly to the parent posters)

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#100

Post by markatkinson »

An anecdotal experience I had was that working at a large corporate was an incredibly pleasant experience. This is obviously due to where I worked being the type of company that was very generous to its employees, in all ways except remuneration which is why I eventually had to go elsewhere.

I still dream of going back there. Due to the size of the company and it being around for so long. I found my job was incredibly well defined and my deliverable's where always right in front of me and measured regularly. This made it very easy to deliver more than was expected of me. Due to this really tight feedback loop between you and the company your career moves forward at an encouraging pace.

It can take some extra effort from your end to move horizontally within the company but where I worked it was a massive stepping stone and I found I could really leverage off of the mechanisms put in place by the company to reduce employee turnover.

My point is you really feel pampered and cared for. I reckon this has a lot to do with the company, as well as my immediate managers being total rock stars at their jobs.

Anyway, now I am in a startup in the truest sense of the word. First employee through the door. Second developer and third person on site. This is not comfortable, and I do not feel pampered. In fact I am considerably more stressed but hell's teeth, nothing makes you up your emotional maturity/expertise/business game as much as this. Much like the post eludes to I suppose.

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