How Does FreeConferenceCall.com Make Money? (2012) • Hacker News Board

Re: How Does FreeConferenceCall.com Make Money? (2012)

#21

Post by mkching » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 2:51 AM UTC

nwilkens wrote: post #19

StudentStuff wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toll fraud is quite common due to the VOIP industry not valuing security. Combined with free conference calling numbers costing a bit to call (and calls to these numbers lasting a fair while), I'm not surprised that most of the traffic was headed to these numbers.

Any idea how this Asterisk server would have been added as a route? These callers that were recorded, were not the ones trying to leverage the hacked server, but rather just dialed the number and were routed through it.

One common exploit if only one user account is hacked is to set up a forward to a specific high cost number that receives a lot of traffic. There are carriers who aggregate these routes and even blend them in with legitimate routes and then resell them to other carriers at a low cost.

Re: How Does FreeConferenceCall.com Make Money? (2012)

#22

Post by mkching » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 3:04 AM UTC

coderholic wrote: post #8

misterprime wrote: post #4

Clever, but it still sounds like it wouldn't add up to that much. They only make a small amount when it connects to a user connected through a small phone company right? Based on this description connecting someone on AT&T in NYC to Verizon in LA wouldn't result in any revenue.

It sounds like they get ~$0.04/min for every user. I bet that adds up!

These sort of rates were real in the past, but regulatory changes have decreased them dramatically. In general, much less than $0.01/mi at wholesale rates.

Re: How Does FreeConferenceCall.com Make Money? (2012)

#23

Post by jtokoph » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 4:55 AM UTC

Relevant ToS clause for AT&T Wireless:

>5.4 Unlimited Voice Services

>Unlimited voice Services are provided primarily for reasonably uninterrupted live dialog between two individuals. If your use of unlimited voice Services for conference calling or call forwarding exceeds 750 minutes per month, AT&T may, at its option, terminate your Service or change your plan to one with no unlimited usage components.

Re: How Does FreeConferenceCall.com Make Money? (2012)

#24

Post by thedailymail » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 5:12 AM UTC

iends wrote: post #18

misterprime wrote: post #4

Clever, but it still sounds like it wouldn't add up to that much. They only make a small amount when it connects to a user connected through a small phone company right? Based on this description connecting someone on AT&T in NYC to Verizon in LA wouldn't result in any revenue.

I worked for a now defunct company that was making $7mm/year doing this. With only 4 people on payroll.

Out of curiosity, why did it go defunct?

Re: How Does FreeConferenceCall.com Make Money? (2012)

#25

Post by jjeaff » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 5:26 AM UTC

jtokoph wrote: post #23

Relevant ToS clause for AT&T Wireless: >5.4 Unlimited Voice Services >Unlimited voice Services are provided primarily for reasonably uninterrupted live dialog between two individuals. If your use of unlimited voice Services for conference calling or call forwarding exceeds 750 minutes per month, AT&T may, at its option, terminate your Service or change your plan to one with no unlimited usage components.

Has anyone ever experienced getting cancelled for this reason? I know quite a few people that likely use more than 750 minutes on conference calls most months. And I have never heard of anyone having a problem.

Also, that's an annoying caveat to "unlimited". Unlimited, except ... limited.

Re: How Does FreeConferenceCall.com Make Money? (2012)

#26

Post by jpangs88 » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 5:31 AM UTC

thedailymail wrote: post #24

iends wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for a now defunct company that was making $7mm/year doing this. With only 4 people on payroll.

Out of curiosity, why did it go defunct?

I am not sure if this is related but I also worked for a company that had this business model and they were desperately trying to change their business model because the money that came in from these calls was decreasing and would eventually stop coming in. It could be that they stop making enough more.

It could also be that they were bought by a different company that had this business model (something that my old company did all the time.)

Re: How Does FreeConferenceCall.com Make Money? (2012)

#27

Post by jjeaff » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 5:43 AM UTC

bckygldstn wrote: post #5

misterprime wrote: post #4

Clever, but it still sounds like it wouldn't add up to that much. They only make a small amount when it connects to a user connected through a small phone company right? Based on this description connecting someone on AT&T in NYC to Verizon in LA wouldn't result in any revenue.

I guess the conference call company is located behind a small rural carrier? Then they can charge the incoming AT&T and Verizon callers 8c each.

You would think if this was costing the big carriers too much, they could just offer their own free conference call number.

They could even spam users with a text message about their own service after someone makes an expensive call to one of the free conference call numbers.

Re: How Does FreeConferenceCall.com Make Money? (2012)

#28

Post by profmonocle » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 5:51 AM UTC

> Everything from blocking calls to free conference numbers, to lawsuits, to adding to your terms of service that you're not allowed to call them.

Notably, Google Voice charges 1¢ per minute to call some of these services, even though US domestic calls are usually free.

Re: How Does FreeConferenceCall.com Make Money? (2012)

#29

Post by Symbiote » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 6:19 AM UTC

StudentStuff wrote: post #11

bkyan wrote: post #3

Are these termination fees still in effect?

In some rural areas there are still extremely high ratecenters that are costly to call. Looking at a ratedeck, 1240655 (Maryland), most Montana numbers and especially the Northwestern Territories (up in Canada) are the costliest to call, ranging from a few cents a minute to tens of cents a minute. Most flat rate VOIP operators won't deliver calls to those numbers, and if they do, they'll close your account if you cal…

Does the same apply to places like Bermuda, Guam and Trinidad which are in the North American +1 area?

I've wondered how that works. In other countries / continents, it's clear when I'm calling a foreign number as the prefix is different. It's also common that different costs are reflected in the local number, like British numbers beginning 07 being mobile phones; it costs more to call one from a basic landline.

Does calling Bermuda cost the same as calling New York?

Re: How Does FreeConferenceCall.com Make Money? (2012)

#30

Post by onetimemanytime » Wed, Aug 15, 2018, 6:45 AM UTC

jtokoph wrote: post #23

Relevant ToS clause for AT&T Wireless: >5.4 Unlimited Voice Services >Unlimited voice Services are provided primarily for reasonably uninterrupted live dialog between two individuals. If your use of unlimited voice Services for conference calling or call forwarding exceeds 750 minutes per month, AT&T may, at its option, terminate your Service or change your plan to one with no unlimited usage components.

Well, we have no government. If we did the word unlimited would not be used, because it's not true. Like the hosts "Unlimited traffic and space" for $1.99 a month. Yeah, let's put Yahoo's video files on it and let's see how unlimited it is.