Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

YC China and Qi Lu

blog.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 360 posts

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#81

Post by nodesocket »

varsitywork wrote: post #26
jumelles wrote: post #15

YC's got a very, very fine line to tread if they're serious about China - with its limits on human rights and authoritarian tendencies, the Chinese government is absolutely not to be trusted. I worry about what sort of concessions tech companies have made and will make to gain access to the Chinese market.

Exactly. I am not sure what Sam Altman is up to here, but this may be something that Silicon Valley companies and the free world will regret deeply in the future. He mentions > to ensure that the benefits of that are fairly spread throughout humanity. Yes, but technologies at the hands of a dictatorship is dangerous. This morning, there was just a thread about Chinese surveillance/censorship technologies being sold t…

I suspect Altman is a staunch supporter of globalization (his twitter is pretty lefty). Meanwhile there is a large cross section of Americans who aren't as positive and some downright against globalization (myself one of them).

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#82

Post by varsitywork »

shard972 wrote: post #63
varsitywork wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why wouldn't they get their hands on that? They wouldn't because most of the western democratic countries are now actively preventing China from stealing their technologies. US with the empowered CFIUS, with the latest defense bill. Germany just prevented 2 key companies from being taken over by China. France drafted anti-takeover measures (aimed at China) amid foreign investment boom. EU is actively seeking to put…

> They wouldn't because most of the western democratic countries are now actively preventing China from stealing their technologies. Thats all kind of small considering the kind of information that has already been dropshiped out with no real punishments to the chinese government itself. All these efforts are is trying to plug the holes, not realizing the holes aren't just company buyouts but mostly espionage via chi…

> Thats all kind of small considering the kind of information that has already been dropshiped out with no real punishments to the chinese government itself.

The western world IS punishing the Chinese government right now. $50B in tariffs and investment restrictions. And it is having an effect on China. Chinese leadership is panicking. Its stock market keeps dropping, its currency weakening, its factories leaving. Wait until the tariffs go up higher and higher.

And you make it sound like China has already got all the techs - no it doesn't. Its military at least 2-3 generations behind. It is still far behind in semiconductor technologies, aircraft, engine, hardware, software, operating system, AI, robotics, etc.

> we have the same things anyway, credit scores and CCTV

The world isn't black and white; it's shades of grey. credit score is not as sesame credit. One can travel/leave the country and one cannot. CCTV is not the same as surveilance/arrest without court of law.

> See this just all seems like reflecting the fact that all countries have these issues.

Do you seriously not understand the difference between concentration camps for people that have not violated laws, vs prisons?

> Especially when we aren't exactly innocent.

You don't need to be angelic to stop evil.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#84

Post by hueving »

shard972 wrote: post #67
jumelles wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should never, ever make concessions when it comes to human rights.

That's just your opinion. Other companies can have other opinions too, as long as the law doesn't force us either way.

Did you just say that the law shouldn't force us to honor human rights? Are you serious?

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#85

Post by dang »

friedman23 wrote: post #80
dang wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No flamebait or flamewars, please. Least of all nationalistic ones.

It has nothing to do with nationalism. The PRC is a dictatorship that currently has millions of people in concentration camps undergoing reeducation, suppresses freedom of expression for its citizens, and crushes minority cultures.

Dismissing or condemning an entire country like you did, besides being unsubstantive, certainly qualifies as nationalistic flamebait in the sense that we use the term here. Please don't post like this to HN.

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#86

Post by wggl »

shard972 wrote: post #52
jumelles wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caring about human rights is silly?

If you want to make it in China then yea, you probably shouldn't be too hung up on human rights. It's not some universal concept that has applied throughout the world for our existence so it's quite rude to pretend like China has to bow to these systems of human rights we developed without china's input.

> It’s not some universal concept

> it’s quite rude

> we developed without china’s input

It is hard to argue that detaining 1 million people for their beliefs[0] and then torturing them[1] is justifiable by cultural relativism. Or massacring people for that matter[2]. At that point you could argue for any atrocity.

It’s not rude it’s basic humanity. It’s not just completely reasonable to ask a government in charge of more than a billion people to please exercise basic humane standards, it’s morally atrocious to suggest otherwise. The Chinese government deserves all they criticism they get for what they have done and continue to do, and it’s arguable that we in the west deserve criticism for enabling them.

[0] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-45147972

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/former-inm...

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of...

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#87

Post by dang »

jumelles wrote: post #62
est wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon Musk needs to hear that. Stop doing business with Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund!

Yes. With the astronomical level of clout that Elon Musk has, I'm willing to call him immoral, unethical, and a bad person for doing business with KSA. A vanishingly small number of people are as influential as Musk, and his actions inspire and are emulated worldwide. Saudi Arabia is currently trying to rehabilitate its image (while maintaining its vicious corporal punishments, extremist views, support of terrorism,…

Probably the biggest single thing you guys could do to make this thread even worse is turn it into yet another comic book feud about Elon Musk. Enough with that, please.

More generally, please don't practice the online shaming culture of denunciation on Hacker News. It makes for lousy, predictable discussion, regardless of how right you are or feel. From an intellectual curiosity point of view—which is the main value of this site—all denunciations are the same.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#88

Post by telltruth »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #49
ulfw wrote: post #44

I find it funny how YC is focusing only on places where the majority of the world won’t or can’t easily work (US visa policy is atrocious and getting worse every year + raising xenophobia in recent times) and China isn’t an easy country to navigate if you don’t speak Mandarin, let alone succeed in as a foreigner (for a variety of reasons). Asia and Europe are big places as are Canada and Australia. Time to think broa…

Mandarin isn't strictly necessary to live in China. Plenty of my laowai colleagues only knew a few words and got along just fine in a tier one Beijing, which admittedly is a bit behind Shanghai and Shenzhen. The only thing that really drove us out was the pollution (a huge problem in Beijing that is supposedly finally getting better). Given the US visa policy, as bad as it is, still attracts far more many foreigners…

> Mandarin isn't strictly necessary to live in China

Basic question: what do you do in China for browsing, emails and maps? I suppose Google doesn't work there and all the local services would be in Mandarin, no? When I travel I use Google search, emails, maps extensively but I have no clue what would I do in China. Also FB and Twitter also likely won't be accessible. So how do I even keep touch with folks outside China, especially if I don't know Mandarin?

Re: YC China and Qi Lu

#90

Post by fusiongyro »

dang wrote: post #85
friedman23 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has nothing to do with nationalism. The PRC is a dictatorship that currently has millions of people in concentration camps undergoing reeducation, suppresses freedom of expression for its citizens, and crushes minority cultures.

Dismissing or condemning an entire country like you did, besides being unsubstantive, certainly qualifies as nationalistic flamebait in the sense that we use the term here. Please don't post like this to HN.

The comment may be referencing this post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17737942
Post reply on HN