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Understanding L1 Terminal Fault aka Foreshadow: What You Need to Know

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Re: Understanding L1 Terminal Fault aka Foreshadow: What You Need to Know

#71

What secrets do typical VM hosts (like cloud service providers) have that must be protected from guests?

Private keys for HTTPS certificates. API keys or different credentials for other systems.

Huh, interesting. VM _hosts_ serve HTTPS sites and hold API keys? Those aren't done by other servers?

Re: Understanding L1 Terminal Fault aka Foreshadow: What You Need to Know

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private keys for HTTPS certificates. API keys or different credentials for other systems.

Huh, interesting. VM _hosts_ serve HTTPS sites and hold API keys? Those aren't done by other servers?

I think the idea is that a given VM client can more easily trust that their keys and such will not be captured by other VM clients if they know that SGX is working.

Re: Understanding L1 Terminal Fault aka Foreshadow: What You Need to Know

#73
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm seriously thinking about getting an AMD CPU for my desktop when this i7 4770k finally needs replacing.

I upgraded from an i7-2600 to an 1800X over a year ago. Once the memory issues were solved (running at 3200 MHz vs ~2800 MHz), I've been happy with my purchase.

I just went from i5-3750K to Ryzen 2700X and had a similar issue getting to the advertised memory frequency. Looks like it’s par for the course and will get sorted out in due time. I’m happy with the AMD CPU outside of that one problem.

Re: Understanding L1 Terminal Fault aka Foreshadow: What You Need to Know

#74
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, no. If I schedule a micro instance in a particular zone and nothing else, for the duration of my timeslice the VM will have to monopolize the core. Optimal use of vCPUs would demand that two VM threads get scheduled to the core to take advantage of HT, which Google says it won’t do. Timeslicing doesn’t solve this problem. At least that’s my reading of what they said.

Re-read what I wrote above. It covered both simultaneous and sequential sharing. Here is the part you are concerned about: instances do not simultaneously share cores with other customer instances via SMT .

Re-read what I wrote. Imagine a machine with 8 cores and 16 hyperthreads. Now imagine you need to optimally use the execution ports in each core. To do that you would need to have 16 VM threads all feeding the ports simultaneously, 2 per core. If all your workloads on that machine are from different customers, you can’t do more than 8. If you timeslice more than 8, then the question is, what is it that you’re selling as a vCPU? If it’s a timesliced core, then it’s not what they say they’re selling (a hyperthread).

Re: Understanding L1 Terminal Fault aka Foreshadow: What You Need to Know

#75
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, no. If I schedule a micro instance in a particular zone and nothing else, for the duration of my timeslice the VM will have to monopolize the core. Optimal use of vCPUs would demand that two VM threads get scheduled to the core to take advantage of HT, which Google says it won’t do. Timeslicing doesn’t solve this problem. At least that’s my reading of what they said.

timeslicing works fine, you just have to flush the cache when switching

I’m not disputing that. I’m just saying that for the specific case of jobs with 1 vCPU which are all from different users you can only schedule half the billable capacity.

Re: Understanding L1 Terminal Fault aka Foreshadow: What You Need to Know

#77
post #76

I'm tempted to just buy the cheapest 8th gen intel cpu and play with that to extract widevine keys from sgx

Since pirates have most likely broken widevine (to the best of my knowledge - I don't have direct confirmation of this), this was also my first thought. I wonder if they've used something like this. As far as I know, it would constitute a complete break of the Widevine DRM model.

Re: Understanding L1 Terminal Fault aka Foreshadow: What You Need to Know

#78
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of legacy cruft in x86, but it's the devil we know. After decades of use, we are still discovering vulnerabilities, in a platform thought to be well-understood. The closest alternative would be ARM. In any case, it's a massive undertaking.

The closest alternative would be ARM On the contrary there's SPARC, MIPS, PA-RISC, POWER and a whole heap of others that perhaps were written off prematurely. Need to move quickly tho' while some vestiges of expertise still remain.

Sparc, Tilera and Parallela are unfortunately gone. I had high hopes into the latter two, esp. since Grid CPU's are perfect for machine learning. Much better than GPU's.

Re: Understanding L1 Terminal Fault aka Foreshadow: What You Need to Know

#79

Getting the SGX attestation key would permanently break SGX-based blockchain (Hyperledger Sawtooth?) mining, if I understand correctly. It's amazing that (if this is correct) this vulnerability has permanently broken a large software project.

SGX Remote Attestation was built specifically to deal with events like this. Intel starts to reject attesting to vulnerable microcode revisions after some period following disclosure. In this case, they even postponed disclosure until patched microcode revisions were available and those revisions already required for successful attesation. If said SGX application wasn't built around this model then it's probably not…

Isn't this pretty much a no-go for any large public software project, given that microcode updates often depend on the OEMs, which are notoriously bad about supporting devices older than about a year?
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