Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

atrium.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 129 posts

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#81

Post by octorian »

leetcrew wrote: post #57
nostrademons wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for one of those for a couple years that had started as a "startup" when I did my internships with them but had morphed into "slow-growing lifestyle business" by the time I left. I'd argue that you get most of the downsides of both with few of the upsides. You don't actually get stability with this setup; you're a couple of customer cancellations away from layoffs at any time. There is no career advancement.…

> cred at parties maybe i'm naive, but if party cred were a serious priority, i would probably have chosen a different career altogether.

The Silicon Valley region is one of the few places where being a Software Engineer is considered a normal and mainstream career.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#82

Post by octorian »

leetcrew wrote: post #63
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I used to socialize a bit more around SF, there definitely was social cache to being part of a unicorn. Declare that you worked at [Uber, Facebook, Airbnb, Square] and you'd have people wow or talk about how smart you were. There is a huge social capital element here.

ah okay, I always sort of imagined it would be like that in SF. I live in a metro area that is not as tech-oriented. when I tell people I'm a software engineer at parties, the only thing they find impressive is that I actually have a full-time job.

When I used to live in a "normal" part of the country, telling people I'm a Software Engineer would usually lead to one of two things: 1. They'd pivot to asking me where I worked (which I didn't feel comfortable sharing with a random stranger, since I worked for a small enough place that it felt a little too specific) 2. They'd lump me in with the annoying IT guy who fixed their stupid Windows issues at work.

Now that I do live in the SV area, I guess I carry some of this baggage with me. I work for the sort of place that would get me local "street cred," but still feel uncomfortable sharing it. Then again, I'm also raising a family and never go to parties anymore, so the opportunity doesn't actually manifest.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#83

Post by jonathankoren »

gkoberger wrote: post #9
jonathankoren wrote: post #2

I joined a startup for stability once. It was way more stable than the megacorp I left.

I think it depends on your definition of stability. Megacorp: The company won't disappear overnight, but you might get tossed around different positions and have projects you've spent a year on shut down out of nowhere. Startup: The company itself may shut down, but in the meantime everything is more focused and transparent.

Instability is 3 teams in a year, due to projects being shutdown or transferred.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#84

Post by titanomachy »

strikelaserclaw wrote: post #6

how does one find startups to work for? I enjoy intensity, chaos, and learning in my job and my big corp job is just not providing that. I'm planning on moving to one of the tech hubs next year and trying to work at a startup of sorts, not sure where to start

TripleByte gets plugged a lot on HN, but I think a lot of people still don't realize what a great time investment it is. I woke up early and did their 3-hour interview before going to work one day. Within a week I'd been offered 30+ on-site interviews at well-funded Bay Area startups, as well as a couple of bigger companies (Palantir, Stripe). Their interview was engaging and challenging and produced lots of useful feedback.

You also get lots of chances to talk to the founders of companies (or sometimes employees for the bigger ones) and evaluate whether an on-site is worth your time.

Especially valuable if you lack a big name on your resume and can't open doors that way.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#85

Post by jeffchien »

grosjona wrote: post #56
mpodlasin wrote: post #29

It's funny how my experience is exactly reverse. Since I joined startup I learn much less, since we can't afford experimentation and there are no other front end devs here, so I don't get a chance to learn backend stuff, since someone has to do front end part. I also hoped to learn some business stuff, but most of it happens behind closed doors between founders and investors while you code boring crud application.

I've been back and forth between startups and corporations. I think I know what you mean in technical terms; that corporations use more advanced (rigorous) processes and tools and so it feels like you're learning more (it feels more precise/correct) - That said, I think that a lot of the stuff that you learn in big companies are anti-patterns when you consider the big picture; a lot of the time, you learn technical s…

(disclaimer: I've worked at two mega corps and a startup and generally favor my experience at the second mega corp so far)

I think your example points out a factor, but not the only factor and probably not the biggest factor. You can also say that startups don't live long enough for their code to grow organically from their original, pristine design and develop deep seated code "cancer" like mega corp code does. Also, even without turnovers, some features just go through enough code modified by enough engineers that Murphy's law happens and things break in creative ways that E2E tests catches or could have caught. And finally, just because I remember my code today doesn't mean I'll remember it in a year or two... I don't assume that my coworkers have perfect memory either.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#86

Post by titanomachy »

tlb wrote: post #19
gkoberger wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it depends on your definition of stability. Megacorp: The company won't disappear overnight, but you might get tossed around different positions and have projects you've spent a year on shut down out of nowhere. Startup: The company itself may shut down, but in the meantime everything is more focused and transparent.

In some sense the startup is lower cognitive load, because everything is great until it all implodes and then you look for a new startup. A punctuated equilibrium. At a megacorp, everything is vaguely doomed all the time, but never so clearly doomed that it's obvious when to make a move, and you spend a lot of time reading political tea leaves so as not to end up on the wrong project. The worst thing that most big co…

"Vaguely doomed all the time" nicely much sums up my most recent bigcorp experience.

Easy to end up on a soul-destroying maintenance project that you can't leave because it's business-critical and nobody else wants to do it.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#87

Post by throwaway66666 »

Spooky23 wrote: post #77
kodablah wrote: post #24

> If you’re seriously considering both options — a traditional company and a startup — here are some points to consider. There are so many definitions of "startup", but given the common one of "VC funded trying to get big", I'd say there's a third company type between these two I dub a "starting-up". It's an early traditional company that's in the black but is not poised to go through the roof or become bloated with…

I worked for a place like this briefly. Their big thing was that it was a “family company”. Cool stuff — except it’s not your family.

I have it as a rule to stay away from companies that position themselves as "We 're like a family". Yes this company is exactly like a family where dad keeps all the money, gets to beat us up, or put us up for adoption if he loves the other kids more.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#88

Post by taormina »

nostrademons wrote: post #50
kodablah wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You pretty much don't have a shot at getting rich I agree with most of your points except this one as it's very situational. Maybe not as an intern, but having real albeit small equity in one of these tiny things can be negotiated, and they can get sold. Unlikely, sure, but the possibility is there. But in general it's about what you're optimizing for. You're points are right for optimizing for intra-company career…

My point is that companies that are slow-growing are rarely sold, and when they are, they usually aren't sold for much. The eye-popping valuations for companies like Whatsapp, Instagram, and YouTube were all based on growth, and on strategic fit with the acquirer. When an acquirer wants you for these reasons, there are large time pressures and asymmetries of information you can leverage to extract a lot more money th…

At this point, both of the tech companies I've been at both match the description and were bought private from public. Ancedata for sure, but it can happen. You make money as an employee when this happens, just not a stupid amount of money. A nice bonus amount of money. Depends entirely on how much stock you have accruing.

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#89

Post by eropple »

mi100hael wrote: post #54
nostrademons wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that companies that are slow-growing are rarely sold, and when they are, they usually aren't sold for much. The eye-popping valuations for companies like Whatsapp, Instagram, and YouTube were all based on growth, and on strategic fit with the acquirer. When an acquirer wants you for these reasons, there are large time pressures and asymmetries of information you can leverage to extract a lot more money th…

On the flip side, I think there are a higher number of small companies willing to pay a bit above market + bonuses for real talent vs. large established companies that are constrained by HR processes. If you're good at selling yourself, you may be able to make more than you would at a big company.

I literally just started a job that corresponds exactly to this. "We need really good principal engineers and we'll fight to get them."

(We're hiring, btw. Email's in my profile.)

Re: Why you should, and shouldn’t, join a startup

#90

Post by yashap »

This piece did feel a little PR/recruit-y, and a bit name drop-y (though obviously the author is a bit of a startup celebrity himself), but even still, it really resonated with me. All the pros and cons have been dead on with my experience. Especially “do work you’re unqualified for”, and that being a great way to learn super quickly.
Post reply on HN