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Monsanto ordered to pay $289M damages in Roundup cancer trial

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Re: Monsanto ordered to pay $289M damages in Roundup cancer trial

#151
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we are now trying to work from axioms to a legal question neither of us are qualified to answer. But my current understanding is: working for a giant company while knowingly breaking the law, whether or not your company tells you to do it, does not shield you in any way from criminal liability. As I understand it, the "interesting" questions here are the extent to which you can hold directors or even major sh…

I'm certainly going to ask my corporate lawyer friends next time I see them. But my disagreement is with the "does not shield you in any way", and where I say there is a de facto buffer. If I commit a crime while working for Dow Chemical, the plaintiff must prove that (1) a crime was committed and (2) that I was personally responsible for it being committed. This sounds exactly like what would need to be proved if I…

Let me know what they say!

With regards to your (1), (2) predicates: that's the case in every crime! Corporations present the additional problem of whether a person who instructed (or set up an incentive system that effectively instructed) you to commit a crime is also criminally liable. But your boss's liability, so far as I understand the law, never shields you from liability.

We want there to be joint liability between the person who commits the crime and the person who orders and profits from the crime. I'm ready to believe it's challenging to achieve that; that often only the people who actually commit crimes are charged in these corporate cases. But this subthread started because I read your first comment as suggesting that, simply by dint of committing a crime at a corporation, the alter ego liability of the corporation protected criminals. I do not believe that.

Re: Monsanto ordered to pay $289M damages in Roundup cancer trial

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Earlier today I searched Google for "RoundUp alternatives Reddit" and found a bunch of comments saying it wasn't that bad. Stuff like "It causes cancer in the same way red meat causes cancer" or "Alternatives are probably worse they just haven't been studied as extensively because of their popularity".

Are those statements wrong?

They're conjecture

Re: Monsanto ordered to pay $289M damages in Roundup cancer trial

#153
post #2

I vaguely remember watching an interview with an exec from Monsanto saying RoundUp was perfectly safe, safe enough to drink. Then immediately refusing to drink it when offered, because of course it's poison.

Drink of piss is also safe to drink. Just letting you know ;)

Re: Monsanto ordered to pay $289M damages in Roundup cancer trial

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people running Monsanto are buffered - if not always protected entirely - by numerous laws from facing the consequences of their actions, precisely because they take those actions in the context of a corporate entity. If I poison my neighbour and I'm caught, I'm going to jail. (In the US I may face the death penalty.) If I'm working inside a corporate and my decisions poison [unknown power of ten] people and caus…

I've said it before, I'll say it again: all companies should be Public Benefit Corporations. PBCs are companies which, in addition to having a fiduciary duty to their shareholders, may add benefitting the public to their charter. "Dump our waste in the river which is the water supply in order to save 2% on downstream costs? Sorry investors, no can do. That harms the public." Make it part of CEOs job to benefit the pu…

I'd love to hear the reason for the downvotes. I'm not surprised - it is kind of radical - but I am curious why people think its a bad idea. I'm sure there are good reasons, I'm not an economist and I haven't thought about it that deeply for that long.

Re: Monsanto ordered to pay $289M damages in Roundup cancer trial

#155
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The presecution claims it's not the active ingredient but the whole herbicide that's cancer causing. I think the studies are only on one of the ingredients, not on the whole herbicide? Also, questions of exposure are not addressed here. This person was drenched in it couple of times by accident. If I use rat poison for my job vs have it rubbed or consumed in different doses, results can be quite different. Monsanto c…

> The presecution claims it's not the active ingredient but the whole herbicide that's cancer causing. I think the studies are only on one of the ingredients, not on the whole herbicide? Yes, the claim neatly was crafted to render all the systematically gathered evidence only tangentially relevant, so what you are left is a lay jury deciding what they feel is more probable (the civil standard being a mere preponderan…

I'm confused. Are you also saying that any amount of exposure to this thing is completely fine? How is that fact? That's a claim. It is a mild poison after all.

They are punishing that level of arrogance. If they had a warning around it, they would be in way less trouble.

Re: Monsanto ordered to pay $289M damages in Roundup cancer trial

#156
post #44

My mom is another one of these stories. I wish I was exaggerating. I bet there's still Round-up in the her garage. I've spent the last 4 years or my life have been devoted to working so I can afford her treatments and keep her around and happy. Does anyone have any environmental attorneys they've worked with in the past they can recommend?

Is your mother a professional gardener? This case is about Roundup causing cancer after professional-scale in-depth exposure for decades, not use in a home garden.
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