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When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

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Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#91

Post by Kliment »

fbender wrote: post #33
Kliment wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true but the sad thing is that random people renting out their apartments are, in practice, more accountable via airbnb reviews than a major hotel chain who can implement an evil policy like this across their properties and do a lot of damage before it's reined in.

I can imagine a (three-letter-agency) renting out places on AirBnB and the likes and wait for a fish to be caught in the net. Esp. in Vegas if only for gambling-related fraud (initially, at least).

Why rent out apartments at immense cost and hope someone gets caught when you can dragnet hundreds in a hotel?

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#92

Post by FlipperBucket »

halbritt wrote: post #70
kkop wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of the "we stand up to authority" hubbub of US security researchers and developers is mostly an act. The sentiment is there to comfort the participants and validate their existence, just like in many other industries. While I hope I am wrong I wouldn't expect people not to fold when it matters. Somewhat understandably so since the current alternative is arguably, or at least ultimately, exile. Just look at this…

The fourth amendment absolutely applies to hotel rooms. https://www.gsblaw.com/duff-on-hospitality-law/guest-room-pr... https://scholarship.shu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1048... From my very basic understanding of what transpired, the hotel security were trespassing by entering a rented room. I'm not altogether familiar with state law in Nevada, but that could certainly be argued in California.

> The fourth amendment absolutely applies to hotel rooms.

Hotel Security aren't the federal government. The 4th amendment? C'mon.

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#93

Post by rustcharm »

I was at DEFCON. I stayed at Caesars. I had a lot of odd stuff in my room. I had no problems.

Security never entered my room, nor did they want to. Why? Because I did the simplest thing. I didn't keep the DND sign on the door so I had normal maid service. I like fresh towels and made beds.

If you leave your DND up, security will come to your room once a day and take a quick visual inspection. Yes, we all know this is mostly 'theater'. If you're there alone and are uncomfortable with people in your room when you're alone, then stand outside the room during the inspection.

Some people aren't happy unless there's drama. I see many people at DEFCON who imagine they're 007 and a host of three letter agencies are interested in them. Good for them! (I suspect Marc Rogers, the DEFCON security person who resigned, simply didn't want to deal with drama anymore when there are real battles to fight.)

For the rest of us, it's a nice convention where we can talk to real engineers and security researchers about problems that affect us.

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#94

Post by tptacek »

zeveb wrote: post #78
reaperducer wrote: post #71

All of the big resorts in Las Vegas are going through a period of change regarding security. It's been a very traumatic 10 months for that industry in that location. Caesars, and the other hotels, are trying to find a balance between the security needs of the guests and the security needs of the staff. It's going to take time to work everything out. Just a few weeks ago, the hotels reached an agreement the maids unio…

> All of the big resorts in Las Vegas are going through a period of change regarding security. It's been a very traumatic 10 months for that industry in that location. The thing is, they don't need to be going through a change. A crazy man did a crazy thing; that's no reason to upend life. The next lunatic's lunacy will very likely be different. As an aside, I had no idea that there are hotels which conduct weapons s…

All the doors on the properties I was at in Vegas last week prominently say "no weapons".

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#96

Post by valar_k »

hartator wrote: post #74

> For the record, our room bill at Caesars alone came in at over $50K, excluding meals and other expenses. Multiple rooms I presume.

Lavish rooms as well. When I go to Defcon, I usually see vendors purchasing the ultra pricey penthouses and throwing parties in them to show out for potential customers. The most ridiculous one I saw was one at Hard Rock with a bowling alley in the room and a rock band playing on the bowling lane, and a giant hottub full of ice with free booze in it.

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#97

Post by tibbon »

FlipperBucket wrote: post #92
halbritt wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fourth amendment absolutely applies to hotel rooms. https://www.gsblaw.com/duff-on-hospitality-law/guest-room-pr... https://scholarship.shu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1048... From my very basic understanding of what transpired, the hotel security were trespassing by entering a rented room. I'm not altogether familiar with state law in Nevada, but that could certainly be argued in California.

> The fourth amendment absolutely applies to hotel rooms. Hotel Security aren't the federal government. The 4th amendment? C'mon.

Eh, and Feds aren't state/muni cops either; but both of the latter still have to follow the 4th (in theory).

FWIW; at camping festivals, I know your tent also is a temporary residence and requires a warrant for search.

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#98

Post by tibbon »

Someone1234 wrote: post #65
strictnein wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$75 for french onion soup, a caesar salad, and two beers $55 for a bad 18" NY style pepperoni pizza There's an 18% gratuity and a $10 delivery fee for every order.

That's astonishingly expensive. I bet you could get a local pizza place to deliver an 18" Pepperoni for half that, let alone the $10 fee.

Everything on the strip is jacked up beyond anything I've ever seen in Tokyo or NYC. Pizza delivery might work, but otherwise... literally everything on the strip is jacked. I can find $1 slice pizza in Manhattan. Less-good version in Vegas? $6.

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#99

Post by rbritton »

The worst part of this situation is that it really accomplishes nothing while opening up avenues for potential abuse. Access to the guest floors did not require any proof of occupancy despite the elevators being equipped with keycard readers, and there was no verification that the security personnel even belonged to Caesar's. How difficult would it really be for someone to pose as a member of the security staff in order to gain access to any room of their choice once this procedure is expected?

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#100

Post by ectospheno »

jsjohnst wrote: post #73
ectospheno wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll find that once you accept payment for them staying there your rights are curtailed depending on which state you live in. Your blanket statement isn't even close to true in quite a few places inside the US.

Citation needed (I was stating my opinion, you are the one claiming I am factually wrong and not providing any proof, further a quick google search proves I was correct in my statement too based on reputable legal sites)

Sure. As I mentioned this varies by state. I'm not going to google all 50 states for you despite your apparent need for me to.

The original article was concerning Nevada I believe. Here is a link for Nevada. http://www.loving.lawyer/blog/2016/8/23/think-twice-before-k...

Again. This varies quite a bit by state.

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