Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

defiant.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 133 posts

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#81

Post by Bartweiss »

bjt2n3904 wrote: post #62
kkop wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of the "we stand up to authority" hubbub of US security researchers and developers is mostly an act. The sentiment is there to comfort the participants and validate their existence, just like in many other industries. While I hope I am wrong I wouldn't expect people not to fold when it matters. Somewhat understandably so since the current alternative is arguably, or at least ultimately, exile. Just look at this…

> Much of the "we stand up to authority" hubbub of US security researchers and developers is mostly an act. Source, go through the body scanners at the TSA. Worn down, can't be bothered to "echo FUUUUUUUU > /dev/null" any more.

Surely this mostly depends on what you care about? Refusing to unlock a device at the border has much heavier (potential) consequences than requesting an alternate search, but I think there are a lot of people who willingly go through body scanners and wouldn't unlock a device.

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#82

Post by dreamcompiler »

halbritt wrote: post #70
kkop wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of the "we stand up to authority" hubbub of US security researchers and developers is mostly an act. The sentiment is there to comfort the participants and validate their existence, just like in many other industries. While I hope I am wrong I wouldn't expect people not to fold when it matters. Somewhat understandably so since the current alternative is arguably, or at least ultimately, exile. Just look at this…

The fourth amendment absolutely applies to hotel rooms. https://www.gsblaw.com/duff-on-hospitality-law/guest-room-pr... https://scholarship.shu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1048... From my very basic understanding of what transpired, the hotel security were trespassing by entering a rented room. I'm not altogether familiar with state law in Nevada, but that could certainly be argued in California.

Exactly. Cops can't break into a hotel room without a warrant, but agents of the management might be able to, depending on local laws. The 4A doesn't apply to them.

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#83

Post by reaperducer »

zeveb wrote: post #78
reaperducer wrote: post #71

All of the big resorts in Las Vegas are going through a period of change regarding security. It's been a very traumatic 10 months for that industry in that location. Caesars, and the other hotels, are trying to find a balance between the security needs of the guests and the security needs of the staff. It's going to take time to work everything out. Just a few weeks ago, the hotels reached an agreement the maids unio…

> All of the big resorts in Las Vegas are going through a period of change regarding security. It's been a very traumatic 10 months for that industry in that location. The thing is, they don't need to be going through a change. A crazy man did a crazy thing; that's no reason to upend life. The next lunatic's lunacy will very likely be different. As an aside, I had no idea that there are hotels which conduct weapons s…

The thing is, they don't need to be going through a change. A crazy man did a crazy thing; that's no reason to upend life. The next lunatic's lunacy will very likely be different.

In a logical, computerized, HN-centric world, that is correct. But we live in a world filled with people, who aren't always logical. The hotels also have to think about insurance liability, lawsuits, and a million other wetware factors.

Do they offer guests a place to check their weapons?

It is possible, but I don't know for sure. The reason I say it's possible is because there are a lot of people who fly to and through Las Vegas to go hunting, and stay in the casino resorts because they're all very close to the airport.

Earlier this year there was a news story because someone was stopped at the TSA checkpoint because they found a dead cougar in his luggage from a hunting trip.† They let him go because it was weird, but not "Vegas weird," and not illegal.

To illustrate how close the resorts are to the airport, the runways had to be shut down during the October 1 massacre because a number of people fleeing the festival grounds ended up on the tarmac.

Another reason it's very likely that weapons can be checked is because Las Vegas hosts several enormous hunting, weapons, and arms conventions throughout the year.

Also, having lived in both Nevada and Texas, IMO, the chances of some random (local) stranger having a concealed weapon on him is exponentially higher in Nevada than even Texas.

† http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/37149625/cougar-found-in-mans...

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#84

Post by dpeck »

Katie Moussouris (https://twitter.com/k8em0) is, unsurprisingly, spot on with the problems from her experience. Being able to verify that people trying to get into your room are indeed hotel security is a perfectly valid request. Trusting an ID badge is always laughable, but even more so in an environment like Defcon. While the privacy concerns aren't invalid, the safety issue posed by this policy are much more concerning.

If a woman is worried about being put into a situation where they feel they are at more risk of assault/rape they should be listened to. Its a shame that is being drown out in favor of the invasion of privacy narrative.

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#85

Post by dreamcompiler »

aestetix wrote: post #40

(posted in another thread, but applies here too) From https://marcrogers.org/2018/08/13/open-letter-to-the-hacker-... . (linked in the article): "Yes hotel staff NEED to check rooms but if we, who can change the very building blocks of life, can’t come up with a safer way to do this then we really aren’t trying hard enough." No, they don't. They have thousands of security cameras set up, and I'd be shocked if they di…

Not a violation of the Constitution unless government agents searched rooms without warrants or permission. Management of the hotel are bound by local laws and their own policies, but not by the constitution.

Rationale: You can always choose another hotel with policies you like better, but you can't choose another government. Constitution only applies to governments for that reason.

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#86

Post by dogismycopilot »

snarfy wrote: post #39
SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange theory, why not just charge people retroactively for the damage and then repair it? Is that not how hotels usually work?

The last time I went to Defcon, someone drove the security golf cart into the pool. Others were flushing bags of concrete down the toilet. There's damage, and then there is Defcon.

When was the last time that you went to DEFCON?

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#87

Post by baby »

reaperducer wrote: post #71

All of the big resorts in Las Vegas are going through a period of change regarding security. It's been a very traumatic 10 months for that industry in that location. Caesars, and the other hotels, are trying to find a balance between the security needs of the guests and the security needs of the staff. It's going to take time to work everything out. Just a few weeks ago, the hotels reached an agreement the maids unio…

Exactly. You are in a country where guns are freely available. You have to live with this kind of things.

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#88

Post by baby »

strictnein wrote: post #54
gammateam wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the room service really that expensive? I do remember paying extra taxes on taxes at the Encore

$75 for french onion soup, a caesar salad, and two beers $55 for a bad 18" NY style pepperoni pizza There's an 18% gratuity and a $10 delivery fee for every order.

At least fees are included and you don't get a bad look for not tipping.

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#89

Post by ryanlol »

DKnoll wrote: post #76
ryanlol wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Marcus Hutchins is hardly the first person to be arrested at defcon. I've had my room searched by the FBI at defcon too. This stuff happens every year, probably multiple times. The people worried about the FBI already avoid the US.

Didn't you get arrested too?

Nah, few days later they served me with a subpoena while disembarking in JFK.

Had I been older, they’d probably have arrested me.

I ended up being arrested months later by local police.

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#90

Post by rsync »

I have some pictures of our[1] hotel rooms (at the Alexis Park) from Defcons 7 and 8 and 9[2] ...

Guns everywhere. Tables full of guns. Gun parts. Suppressors. There were more guns than laptops.

How things have changed ...

[1] 303, OC/23.org, TX CuervoCon friends

[2] 1998/1999/2000, I think ?

Post reply on HN