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Instructions from Facebook not to touch the posts of the cabinet minister

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Re: Instructions from Facebook not to touch the posts of the cabinet minister

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hungary is a sovereign country. Why would a government have any obligations towards any medium, to allow it to operate within the country? Esp. when said medium has an agenda to influence public opinion? (In this case, by taking down videos expressing the opinion of the democratically elected government, and by only allowing videos criticising the opinion of the majority of the citizens). Governments can decide what…

You are absolutely right. Hungary is a sovereign country. If they don't like their citizens having access to a particular private platform/medium, they can block access to it. It's very simple. The same way it's done with everything else. If a country doesn't like a particular book, they ban imports into their territory. If they don't like their citizens having ability to catch a TV/radio transmission from a neighbor…

I'm confused. I thought that Facebook was doing the censoring.

Re: Instructions from Facebook not to touch the posts of the cabinet minister

#52
post #17

"When asked, Facebook officials told us only immutable characteristics and traits that people are born with warrant special protection. Being a migrant is not such a trait, therefore freedom of speech takes priority." What about forced displacement? There are 10s of milions of forcibly displaced people around the world. It's not a small group compared to some other mentioned protected groups. If the basic idea is tha…

> What about forced displacement? There are 10s of milions of forcibly displaced people around the world. It's not a small group compared to some other mentioned protected groups.

People who were forcibly displaced apply for asylum and (if the system works right) eventually become refugees. AIUI the overwhelming majority of the migrants in question are not seeking asylum.

> Anyway why it's ok to attack someone for something he chose and not ok for something he didn't choose?

Because that's most people's moral instinct, even across different cultures?

Re: Instructions from Facebook not to touch the posts of the cabinet minister

#53
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king." And yet, there are so many instances where their is no ambiguity about the lies. They are simply bald-faced lies, and there is no doubt that they are indeed lies. And Facebook is quite aware that they are lies. And those lies get very widespread distribution on their platform. And those lies have real political consequences. In the land of the deceived, Facebook…

> And yet, there are so many instances where their is no ambiguity about the lies. I suspect everyone can agree there are instances where there is no ambiguity about what is a lie and what is truth. But it seems unlikely that there is any consensus on which instances these are, or what the truth is. If there is consensus, then almost by definition censorship is not needed, because all the though leaders can identify…

> The hope is that people will vote with their feet and move to communities that favour the truth.

People will move to communities that favor their truth, I suspect. Same reason they typically watch the news stations that reflect their biases.

Re: Instructions from Facebook not to touch the posts of the cabinet minister

#54
post #4

The whole concept of "community standards" for a worldwide communication channel strikes me as newspeak for centralized moral policing. Imagine the leading social network weren't facebook but vkontakte or weibo and they imposed their own standards on billions of people communicating with each other. Filtering should be a tool available to individuals and delegatable to groups that are aligned with their own standards…

>Imagine the leading social network weren't facebook but vkontakte or weibo and they imposed their own standards on billions of people communicating with each other.

But the difference is that in this case it's "white" and Jewish American Democratic party partisans from Silicon Valley and California.

If it were, say, "white" Christian conservative Republicans from the Southeast of the USA, that would be a problem.

But partisan "liberal" Democrats are, by definition, not "authoritarian" and anyone who opposes them are "fascists."

So, it's ok; in fact, even objecting makes you suspiciously "fascist."

Re: Instructions from Facebook not to touch the posts of the cabinet minister

#55
post #4

The whole concept of "community standards" for a worldwide communication channel strikes me as newspeak for centralized moral policing. Imagine the leading social network weren't facebook but vkontakte or weibo and they imposed their own standards on billions of people communicating with each other. Filtering should be a tool available to individuals and delegatable to groups that are aligned with their own standards…

It also seems to me that people are quick to conflate censorship by Facebook with censorship by a state.

It would be a cleaner argument if Facebook merely viewed itself as a platform and a government found the need to restrict it within their boundaries, but Facebook has it's own rather mysterious law that it applies in an arbitrary fashion.

Re: Instructions from Facebook not to touch the posts of the cabinet minister

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hungary is a sovereign country. Why would a government have any obligations towards any medium, to allow it to operate within the country? Esp. when said medium has an agenda to influence public opinion? (In this case, by taking down videos expressing the opinion of the democratically elected government, and by only allowing videos criticising the opinion of the majority of the citizens). Governments can decide what…

You are absolutely right. Hungary is a sovereign country. If they don't like their citizens having access to a particular private platform/medium, they can block access to it. It's very simple. The same way it's done with everything else. If a country doesn't like a particular book, they ban imports into their territory. If they don't like their citizens having ability to catch a TV/radio transmission from a neighbor…

>They don't ask the publisher from that other country to modify the contents.

They shouldn't rely on this as their only option, but they may as well ask. If the publisher complies it saves everyone a lot of bother.

Re: Instructions from Facebook not to touch the posts of the cabinet minister

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The solution is not to trust anything you see on Facebook or to leave the platform entirely. Unfortunately neither does much good individually, because the real harm comes from the widespread acceptance of the lies.

Who gets to decide what are lies? Makes me think of this saying: "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."

Oh man, if only this argument worked on segfaults! "Shut up kernel, who are you to decide if that memory has been free'd? Just run the code as I meant it damn it!"

Re: Instructions from Facebook not to touch the posts of the cabinet minister

#58
post #54
post #4

The whole concept of "community standards" for a worldwide communication channel strikes me as newspeak for centralized moral policing. Imagine the leading social network weren't facebook but vkontakte or weibo and they imposed their own standards on billions of people communicating with each other. Filtering should be a tool available to individuals and delegatable to groups that are aligned with their own standards…

>Imagine the leading social network weren't facebook but vkontakte or weibo and they imposed their own standards on billions of people communicating with each other. But the difference is that in this case it's "white" and Jewish American Democratic party partisans from Silicon Valley and California. If it were, say, "white" Christian conservative Republicans from the Southeast of the USA, that would be a problem. Bu…

You've just made up a "liberal" Democrat boogeyman for your weird argument.

Re: Instructions from Facebook not to touch the posts of the cabinet minister

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how it's just become the first european city to top the economist liveability index. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45174600

The migrants are very satisfied, thank you.

nhanq is a one day old account posting fake news. Let's hope that the trolls don't take hold here on HN too.

There are many valid criticisms of these kind of surveys, but crime, which is the hook that the anti-migrant posters like to use, is one of the criteria - so the idea that "It's getting bad there" is the one that needs rapid rebuttal.

Re: Instructions from Facebook not to touch the posts of the cabinet minister

#60
post #4

The whole concept of "community standards" for a worldwide communication channel strikes me as newspeak for centralized moral policing. Imagine the leading social network weren't facebook but vkontakte or weibo and they imposed their own standards on billions of people communicating with each other. Filtering should be a tool available to individuals and delegatable to groups that are aligned with their own standards…

But Facebook is not a worldwide communication channel. It's a social network/community owned by a single company and its shareholders. Internet is the worldwide communication channel. You can "filter" it and make sure it aligns with your own standards by simply choosing to visit and use websites, communities and services which do align with your standards, and by avoiding those which don't align.

> But Facebook is not a worldwide communication channel.

Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, etc are de facto worldwide communication channels. The degree to which they are the totality of communication is a function of their popularity, and this is the reason why it is so desirable to control speech on these platforms.

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