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From laboratory in far west, China’s surveillance state spreads quietly

reuters.com

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Re: From laboratory in far west, China’s surveillance state spreads quietly

#31

Post by lazerpants »

adventured wrote: post #29
3pt14159 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh. I dunno. There should be a word for it that isn't dictatorship. There is an order-ness and a certain degree of pragmatism and restraint that the Chinese state has that most dictatorships do not. They sort of bend with the wind at times and it vents the outrage. They allow the intelligent to get access to the real internet without letting the bulk of their population talk unhindered. The way they do the Communist…

> I agree that AI-powered surveillance is worrying, but it's not going to look like Stalin. It's going to look like something completely different. China is in the hands of Xi now. So that entirely depends on what he's willing to do to try to retain power, and what he regards as necessary to pursue his vision. Dictators get increasingly paranoid and erratic with time, with few exceptions in the last several hundred y…

It's difficult to tell, given that China is a dictatorship, but there are some in the party and state that are perhaps opposed to Xi seizing so much power.

Good article on this: https://www.economist.com/china/2018/08/11/how-to-read-summe...

Re: From laboratory in far west, China’s surveillance state spreads quietly

#32

Post by uRreading2slow »

dnomad wrote: post #28
tepidandroid wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm really tired of people fawning over China. Where are you seeing this? Any thread even remotely involving China is 95% filled with anti-Chinese posts, such as your own. There were a few this week. Heck, look in this very same comment thread -where are the 'fawners' you speak of?

It's strange, isn't it? It's a ritual at this point: an anti-China post is submitted by adventured, rapidly voted up, and then filled with comments that are a competition to see who can denounce China the most. What do you suppose the point is? Is it a Trump thing? It certainly wasn't always the case. There was a time when I happily shared HN with Chinese colleagues. Was that point, I wonder.

[dead]

Re: From laboratory in far west, China’s surveillance state spreads quietly

#33

Post by felix_nagaand »

gonehome wrote: post #17
Fuxy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were never moving towards democracy they were always moving towards "democracy with Chinese characteristics". All they ever wanted was to get all the benefits of democracy while staying a communist dictatorship which given the results so far they have succeeded in brilliantly. In many ways they are now out competing other countries because they have way more power and leverage on where Chinese companies move or…

Wearing a mask isn't enough because they're also working on gait recognition, you'd have to change up how you walk every time you leave too.

Pebbles in one or both shoes, plus a thick insole, and some sort of tourniquet on a leg just loose to allow blood to flow will be sufficient to trick these for sometime so long as one can carefully conceal any other uniquely identifying factors.

Re: From laboratory in far west, China’s surveillance state spreads quietly

#34

Post by tepidandroid »

dnomad wrote: post #28
tepidandroid wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm really tired of people fawning over China. Where are you seeing this? Any thread even remotely involving China is 95% filled with anti-Chinese posts, such as your own. There were a few this week. Heck, look in this very same comment thread -where are the 'fawners' you speak of?

It's strange, isn't it? It's a ritual at this point: an anti-China post is submitted by adventured, rapidly voted up, and then filled with comments that are a competition to see who can denounce China the most. What do you suppose the point is? Is it a Trump thing? It certainly wasn't always the case. There was a time when I happily shared HN with Chinese colleagues. Was that point, I wonder.

The only demographic I can think of that would dedicate so much time denigrating a country with such force and vitriol are the ex-pats. SV types, though very left leaning, are far too busy.

A common pattern to look for is large blocks of hand-wavy, conjecture-fuelled text with little in the way of facts and substance.

Re: From laboratory in far west, China’s surveillance state spreads quietly

#36

Post by WillPostForFood »

tepidandroid wrote: post #25
api wrote: post #5

I'm really tired of people fawning over China. This is a country with a horrible human rights record, over a million people presently in camps based on racial profiling , and an active program to build the most comprehensive surveillance state in the world. It's doubly hypocritical when the people doing the fawning are American liberals that would go completely bonkers if anything like that were happening here. (The…

> I'm really tired of people fawning over China. Where are you seeing this? Any thread even remotely involving China is 95% filled with anti-Chinese posts, such as your own. There were a few this week. Heck, look in this very same comment thread -where are the 'fawners' you speak of?

Not sure about fawning, but every time there is a negative post about China, there is always a big thread of “we are just as bad”.

Re: From laboratory in far west, China’s surveillance state spreads quietly

#37

Post by yorwba »

tepidandroid wrote: post #34
dnomad wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's strange, isn't it? It's a ritual at this point: an anti-China post is submitted by adventured, rapidly voted up, and then filled with comments that are a competition to see who can denounce China the most. What do you suppose the point is? Is it a Trump thing? It certainly wasn't always the case. There was a time when I happily shared HN with Chinese colleagues. Was that point, I wonder.

The only demographic I can think of that would dedicate so much time denigrating a country with such force and vitriol are the ex-pats. SV types, though very left leaning, are far too busy. A common pattern to look for is large blocks of hand-wavy, conjecture-fuelled text with little in the way of facts and substance.

Do you mean ex-pats from China living in other countries, or ex-pats from other countries now living in China?

Re: From laboratory in far west, China’s surveillance state spreads quietly

#38

Post by seanmcdirmid »

assblaster wrote: post #4

I have first hand experience in Xinjiang a decade ago. Based on this report, it's gotten even worse. What I remember most was: 1) nearly hourly MMS messages to my flip phone from unknown numbers with an unknown attachment. Since my phone was bought outside China, the MMS attachment didn't automatically open the likely spyware. 2) Being followed and monitored by plainclothes policemen 3) Having my hotel room searched…

Was that in Urumqi or somewhere out near the border in 北疆? I went in 2006, so it wasn’t that bad yet.

Re: From laboratory in far west, China’s surveillance state spreads quietly

#39

Post by [deleted] »

Fuxy wrote: post #14
assblaster wrote: post #4

I have first hand experience in Xinjiang a decade ago. Based on this report, it's gotten even worse. What I remember most was: 1) nearly hourly MMS messages to my flip phone from unknown numbers with an unknown attachment. Since my phone was bought outside China, the MMS attachment didn't automatically open the likely spyware. 2) Being followed and monitored by plainclothes policemen 3) Having my hotel room searched…

They were never moving towards democracy they were always moving towards "democracy with Chinese characteristics". All they ever wanted was to get all the benefits of democracy while staying a communist dictatorship which given the results so far they have succeeded in brilliantly. In many ways they are now out competing other countries because they have way more power and leverage on where Chinese companies move or…

[deleted]

Re: From laboratory in far west, China’s surveillance state spreads quietly

#40

Post by seanmcdirmid »

lazerpants wrote: post #31
adventured wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I agree that AI-powered surveillance is worrying, but it's not going to look like Stalin. It's going to look like something completely different. China is in the hands of Xi now. So that entirely depends on what he's willing to do to try to retain power, and what he regards as necessary to pursue his vision. Dictators get increasingly paranoid and erratic with time, with few exceptions in the last several hundred y…

It's difficult to tell, given that China is a dictatorship, but there are some in the party and state that are perhaps opposed to Xi seizing so much power. Good article on this: https://www.economist.com/china/2018/08/11/how-to-read-summe...

China is more of an authoritarian aristocracy at this point ruled by a few really powerful red families. Xi’s is only one such family, the others have power and will often duke it out in various factions.

I still don’t think Xi is as powerful as even Jiang Zemin was, he definitely isn’t at Deng’s level yet.

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