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Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

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Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#381

Post by philwelch »

briandear wrote: post #369
philwelch wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Republican "flat tax" ideas have tax simplification as a major selling point (e.g. Ted Cruz talking about filing your taxes on a postcard); if you can simplify the implementation of the existing tax schedule, you lose that selling point.

The problem is the existing tax schedule isn’t so clear. Depreciation of assets for example. By “simplifying” tax filing without simplifying the underlying calculations, there is far less public visibility of just how broken the tax system is. A flat tax is closer to good than our current system. People that oppose flat taxes do so because they want other people to pay more. It’s that simple. See what Milton Friedman…

> By “simplifying” tax filing without simplifying the underlying calculations, there is far less public visibility of just how broken the tax system is.

That's a decently idealistic viewpoint, but "complicated" doesn't necessarily mean "broken". For example, pretty much all Unix-style operating systems have not only a ton of now-unnecessary code to handle text I/O from 1960's teletype machines, but they even come with a "terminal emulator" that literally emulates the behavior of a 1960's teletype machine. That's how the command line works. You would never design it that way from the start, it's complicated, it's crufty, and it's vaguely horrifying, and yet it works and solves virtually all of the real problems that real people would have with that system. Just like letting the IRS fill out the first draft of your tax return.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#382

Post by rayiner »

dangjc wrote: post #351
rayiner wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact. Intuit spent just $2.4 million on lobbying per year and $775,000 on campaign contributions: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000026667&c... . If their lobbying dollars are what caused the IRS to stop those programs, you could "outbid" them with just a Kickstarter. Intuit and friends are a red herring: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/grover-norquist/grover-norqui...

They are not a red herring. California tried to do this, and its a Democratic state, not swayed by Grover Norquist, but Intuit blocked it. https://www.npr.org/2017/03/29/521954033/stanford-professor-...

This doesn’t pass the smell test. With $35,000, he almost managed to get Ready Return in CA? We could raise that much just in this thread. If money was the sticking point, it would’ve happened already.

And California may lean blue on the federal level, but it is a very anti-tax state (Prop 13, etc.).

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#383

Post by ams6110 »

maxxxxx wrote: post #255
philwelch wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Republican "flat tax" ideas have tax simplification as a major selling point (e.g. Ted Cruz talking about filing your taxes on a postcard); if you can simplify the implementation of the existing tax schedule, you lose that selling point.

Flat tax doesn't even simplify anything. The problem with taxes is to determine what the taxable income is. Figuring out the tax rate is trivial once you have that, no matter what the curve is. Flat tax is just another attempt to give big tax breaks to higher incomes.

100%. Taxable income should be gross income. That would make everything so easy.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#384

Post by philliphaydon »

peatmoss wrote: post #5

Having lived in New Zealand where the IRD does this, yes. Yes I would. If they owe you money, you can file. If you owe them money because they screwed up, you don’t need to do anything. This assumes pay as you earn, standard employee status, not entrepreneurial revenue. Easy for the common case.

Kiwi living in Singapore. I prefer Singapore's method of deducting it from your bank account directly each month, or you pay your own lump sum.

In NZ (and Australia) you have tax withheld, which means the employer holds your tax, they are not obligated to pay that tax for ( i believe 6 months ) so they tend to pay 1/4 yearly or 1/2 yearly, leaving the money in their own account.

In Singapore you get your full salary and you pay it yourself, either via lump sum, or monthly deductions from your bank account.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#385

Post by scott_s »

hundt wrote: post #320
Spooky23 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of it this way. There are about 125 million households in the US. 80% of those households obtain money via: W-2, Retirement (Social Security, 1099-r), bank interest via 1099, dividends or other investment income via 1099, contractor income via 1099 and similar. 13% of taxpayers can file a 1040EZ (aka simple enough to use a phone IVR) 100 million households can be freed of a needless administrative burden. Why n…

First of all, no self-employed taxpayer ("contractor income via 1099") could have an accurate return prepared by the IRS because the IRS won't know their expenses. But secondly there's a lot more to taxes than just income. For example: - Filing status (married, head of household, etc.) - Education credits - Child credits - Personal exemptions (income adjustment reduced to zero, but you still need to calculate them to…

So then you take what the IRS gives you, modify it with new information and send it back in. You’re arguing against having an easier starting point.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#386

Post by Aramgutang »

grkvlt wrote: post #295
volkk wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally speaking, I've driven a lot and 75-80 is ideal speed for me. When I drove in texas where in certain areas, the speed limit is 80-85, I still drove around 80. Once you hit 85/90, a car just becomes too shaky/unstable feeling.

I think Ferrari, Porsche, et al would beg to differ. Most high end Mercedes, Audi or BMW cars are limited to 155 mph but you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference in ride quality between the top 50 mph of the range and the bottom 50. If your car gets shaky and unstable when you hit 90 mph then I'm sorry but you just don't have a very good vehicle.

The car is not all that's at play here. Road surface quality is a huge factor.

I've pushed a rental Merc past 180 km/h (110 mph) on a reasonably well-paved outback road, and it was downright unpleasant to drive at that speed from the vibration. On a smoother highway I would guess it'd still become unpleasant past 200 km/h (125 mph).

Personally, I also found driving at those speeds too mentally taxing. The lack of time to react, the lack of maneuverability, and the huge braking distance were just too stressful. You couldn't let your thoughts, let alone your eyes, off the road for even a second.

On that particular trip, I had driven for 18 hours (excluding short breaks and a 3-hour nap), most of it at ~100 km/h. If I had the option of driving 180 km/h the whole time and save 8 hours, I would not take it.

That said, if there were no speed limits, I'd probably drive 130-150 km/h (80-95 mph), depending on the road, which isn't far from what volkk said.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#387

Post by dragonwriter »

dangjc wrote: post #351
rayiner wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact. Intuit spent just $2.4 million on lobbying per year and $775,000 on campaign contributions: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000026667&c... . If their lobbying dollars are what caused the IRS to stop those programs, you could "outbid" them with just a Kickstarter. Intuit and friends are a red herring: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/grover-norquist/grover-norqui...

They are not a red herring. California tried to do this, and its a Democratic state, not swayed by Grover Norquist, but Intuit blocked it. https://www.npr.org/2017/03/29/521954033/stanford-professor-...

> California [...] a Democratic state, not swayed by Grover Norquist

The Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association is one of the most powerful political groups in the state and has been doing the same schtick as Norquist (though, when Jarvis was alive, under a different name), since Norquist was still in college.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#388

Post by ghouse »

repiret wrote: post #152
ghouse wrote: post #52

Most of the rest of the world does this. If you only have W-2 or 1099 income, the government already has all of the data necessary to complete your taxes using standard deductions. If you have other income, itemize, or have other circumstances, you can continue doing your taxes as is. It is curious that some proponents (in the US) of lowering taxes intentionally make taxes more complicated so as to make people more o…

If by 1099 you mean 1099-MISC, which is what I think most people mean when they say "1099 income" without an additional qualifier, then the IRS almost certainly has no idea what detections are available to you, and there may be taxable things that they don't know about either.

I mean 1099-INT, 1099-DIV, and 1099-B. The 1099-MISC for consultants, as you point out, introduces additional complexities.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#389

Post by Aramgutang »

softgrow wrote: post #379
gst wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm citizen of Austria and resident of the United States. Austrian tax returns are much simpler because in the majority of cases they don't exist: Your employer and your banks automatically withhold the correct amount of taxes (capital gains are taxed at a flat rate and don't influence regular income taxes). Marriage status doesn't matter for income tax as the same tax brackets apply to everyone. Deductions are much…

Australian here (we speak English and have kangaroos, not in the towns to be clear but they do outnumber the people). Australian personal tax returns are getting easier and easier with the move to electronic filing combined with pre-filling of income from employers and financial institutions. Log onto MyGov, check the pre-filled information which is about 90% of what you need then figure out the remaining special cas…

As another Australian, can confirm. This year's tax return was as easy as logging into MyGov, verifying my contact details, confirming that the wage payments report from my employer was accurate, entering a previously-calculated number into the "capital gains" field, and pressing "submit". Took less than 10 minutes.

The only non-trivial bits are things like capital gains, work expenses, donations, but these are all things that you should be tracking in a spreadsheet as they occur through the year, and you'll have a number at the bottom of that spreadsheet that you can just copy over to your return (like I did with my capital gains, for example).

Even as a contractor in the past (keep in mind, in Australia, a contractor is a sole proprietor business), filing my return was as easy as copying income/expense totals from my invoice/receipt tracking spreadsheets into the return, adding any new depreciating assets to the list (that persists on their servers and gets recalculated each year) and submitting.

I don't have any interest accounts or private health insurance, but these would be some of the other things that get automatically pre-filled. And it's been this way for well over a decade now.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#390

Post by vagab0nd »

stephengillie wrote: post #3

I'm annoyed that there is no simple system for the IRS to tell me what I owe, and let me pay or dispute. Instead, we play this game where the IRS provides a bunch of complicated documents, I guess which ones to fill out and submit, then wait 3 years to see if I was randomly chosen to see if I was correct. So it's very easy to make a mistake for dozens of years, then suddenly be penalized at random. It's the worst kin…

The biggest problem for me is the delay between when the tax is incurred and when it is filed. As a home owner, for instance, every year I have to remember how much I paid for property tax, mortgage interests, etc (or at least save the receipts). If the IRS can provide some kind of API that allows me to file each item as it appears, that would be much better.
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