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Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

nytimes.com

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Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#271

Post by kelnos »

jjeaff wrote: post #226
dionidium wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not..entirely true. Obviously. You should read categorical statements like this one as, "The IRS [often and in many of the most common cases] have all the data." That's a generally-applicable, useful, mental substitution that saves us from unnecessary and constant waffling and equivocation in everyday conversation.

They really don't have even close to all the data. The irs will generally have income numbers, as those generally must be reported through 1099k, 1099, and w2, etc. But they have no information on your expenses, depreciation, etc. So they only know your revenues, not your expenses. And this applies for business as well as personal.

Sure, but more than half the population doesn't itemize, and doesn't end up reporting expenses, depreciation, etc. Some people would need to provide supplemental information to the IRS, sure, but that's a minority of people.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#272

Post by masklinn »

ransom1538 wrote: post #224
masklinn wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is a straightforward answer: It's also patent nonsense.

I am not agreeing with it just stating the fact.

You are not stating "the fact" you are stating patent nonsense.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#273

Post by phil21 »

the_gastropod wrote: post #89
Karishma1234 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not that simple and there are deeper issues. If buying out politicians was easy Google and Amazon would have easily raised H1B cap by now. Just like in immigration there are multiple forces at play in taxation too. The powerful anti-tax group (which I support) is against this simplification problem. We believe making it simple would also make it simple to raise taxes and people will not realise how much money t…

This would be fine and good if: 1. There was any relation between how much we spent and what we pay in taxes. There isn't. In the U.S., so-called "fiscal conservatives" routinely give massive tax breaks to the wealthiest Americans while simultaneously voting to increase spending in the largest discretionary spending category we have: the military—which currently represents 53.7% of our discretionary budget. 2. People…

> 2. People currently had any idea what they were spending on taxes

Taxes include all the things. Not just Federal income tax. It gets frustrating comparing tax rates to say - European nations - when they typically will be quoting all-in tax rates other than sales tax (VAT) - where the US number will almost invariably list only the federal income tax rate which tells not even half the story in many cases.

social security, medicare, medicaid, local income taxes, state income taxes, federal income taxes, real estate taxes, sales taxes.

Adding those taxes together equals your total tax load. I think more people are closer to 50% than you'd suspect. Programs like social security and medicare are re-distributive in nature and indistinguishable from taxes - they simply were marketed differently for political reasons. But lets call them what they are.

> 401k contributions, pre-tax benefits like health insurance, transportation benefits, FSA's, etc.,.

Agreed that those are not taxes - in fact somewhat the opposite!

Edit: formatting

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#274

Post by gwbas1c »

stephengillie wrote: post #3

I'm annoyed that there is no simple system for the IRS to tell me what I owe, and let me pay or dispute. Instead, we play this game where the IRS provides a bunch of complicated documents, I guess which ones to fill out and submit, then wait 3 years to see if I was randomly chosen to see if I was correct. So it's very easy to make a mistake for dozens of years, then suddenly be penalized at random. It's the worst kin…

The system would be much easier if my tax software could download what the IRS has. This way it could either do most of the data entry for me; or if I had a dispute, I'd know about the problem immediately.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#275

Post by devhead »

paulcole wrote: post #197
gamblor956 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IRS has actually run trials like this in the past. Very successful, at least for simply W2-based returns, since most people's taxable transactions get reported by companies anyway (i.e., mortgages/interest, other income, etc.) and most people use the standardized deduction. Inuit and Quicken subsequently lobbied to end those programs and even bar the IRS from running similar programs...

> Inuit and Quicken subsequently lobbied to end those programs and even bar the IRS from running similar programs... Is this true or an urban legend?

It is true.

This is one of the reasons i provide to Intuit recruiters when they try and get me to interview for them. I am not working for the company actively working against my best interests.

We in the tech community don't always have the luxury to work for a company who we absolutely love and respect, but I draw the line when it comes to companies that actively engage in this type of concerted effort against citizens.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#276

Post by 2trill2spill »

volkk wrote: post #181
Coding_Cat wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Set extremely low speeds that don't make sense on highways. Allow most people to go 10-15 above. I doubt people really speed because the limits have been set too low and the people know better what is an ideal speed limit. I think people_think_ they know better what the speed limit is, and/or reason "well if 60mph is okay, 75 mph can't be that bad, I'm barely speeding and I'm in a rush". At least, that's the attitud…

Anecdotally speaking, I've driven a lot and 75-80 is ideal speed for me. When I drove in texas where in certain areas, the speed limit is 80-85, I still drove around 80. Once you hit 85/90, a car just becomes too shaky/unstable feeling.

> Once you hit 85/90, a car just becomes too shaky/unstable feeling.

Not my car, I often look down and see that I'm going 90 when it feels like I'm going 70.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#277

Post by Symmetry »

curiousgeorgio wrote: post #182
gamblor956 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IRS has actually run trials like this in the past. Very successful, at least for simply W2-based returns, since most people's taxable transactions get reported by companies anyway (i.e., mortgages/interest, other income, etc.) and most people use the standardized deduction. Inuit and Quicken subsequently lobbied to end those programs and even bar the IRS from running similar programs...

Nearly everyone I've talked to (on both sides of the political spectrum) agrees on this issue; if the IRS has the means to verify and audit the data, they might as well prepare the forms and just get authorization (+ any additional info they might be lacking) before tax returns are submitted. So how is it that lobbying alone is enough to persuade lawmakers to take the side of Intuit et al.? And which lawmakers are so…

There are also 1.2 million tax preparers in the US. I'm not going to vote for somebody who has the wrong opinion on, e.g., abortion just because they're going to make my taxes easier but if the change to taxes was going to eliminate my job I'd feel differently.

Also, the complex nature of the US tax code means that the people who've put effort into gaming the system and the dishonest also stand to lose if move to a more reasonable system.

So it's really not just about the campaign contributions but actual substantial interest groups.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#278

Post by pm90 »

cortesoft wrote: post #132
kartan wrote: post #51

I have paid taxes in Sweden and Spain. In both countries, I get a preliminary tax form with all my data. If I don't want to change anything I just need to go online. Click Accept. And pay with my credit card the difference between what my employer pays to the government monthly and the total, around 100$. It is very efficient. I have the feeling that apart from lobbying USA loves to hate taxes. To make paying taxes o…

This is certainly true. In particular, Americans for Tax Reform (the group founded by Grover Norquist) lobbies against any attempt at making paying taxes easier for this reason. Their argument is that people should be constantly aware of how much they are paying in taxes, and making it too easy would hinder this. These groups, combined with tax preparation companies, prevent any meaningful attempt to make paying taxe…

> Lobbies against any attempt at making paying taxes easier for this reason. Their argument is that people should be constantly aware of how much they are paying in taxes, and making it too easy would hinder this.

Can we please stop taking their claims at face value? It is a blatant attempt to destroy the power of the US Federal Government, perhaps the last entity that stands in the way of absolute corporate domination. Norquist is a pawn in this play, just like all the other PAC's, super PAC's, institutions doing "economic research" etc.

The GOP has been consumed by these groups, who have been very clever to "explain" how tax cuts and reducing Government and social security benefits are great, even to those who need them the most. They are a cancer in American society and it still baffles me that these groups are now considered mainstream.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#279

Post by lern_too_spel »

usaar333 wrote: post #154
lern_too_spel wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have "boring" taxes with many stock transactions. This is not simple to file.

Stock transactions make your taxes very not boring. Pub 550 ( https://www.irs.gov/publications/p550 ) is one of the most complicated areas of personal income tax.

It is boring for the IRS's computers, which calculate everything the IRS needs to know automatically from the data sent by my brokerage firm.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#280

Post by arebop »

curiousgeorgio wrote: post #182
gamblor956 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IRS has actually run trials like this in the past. Very successful, at least for simply W2-based returns, since most people's taxable transactions get reported by companies anyway (i.e., mortgages/interest, other income, etc.) and most people use the standardized deduction. Inuit and Quicken subsequently lobbied to end those programs and even bar the IRS from running similar programs...

Nearly everyone I've talked to (on both sides of the political spectrum) agrees on this issue; if the IRS has the means to verify and audit the data, they might as well prepare the forms and just get authorization (+ any additional info they might be lacking) before tax returns are submitted. So how is it that lobbying alone is enough to persuade lawmakers to take the side of Intuit et al.? And which lawmakers are so…

Maybe lobbying and the current rules about campaign finance are undemocratic and should be changed, but meantime where's the lobbying group where we can donate to advocate for tax simplification?

I used to think it was Americans for Tax Reform, now I think Tax Policy Center is the closest thing, but while Bankman has worked a lot with them in the past, in this article they seem at least ambivalent if not opposed to it.

Any other suggestions of which nonprofit lobbying organizations can be used to offset the impact of Americans for Tax Reform, Intuit, and other organizations who favor tax complexification?

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