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Thank you HN

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Re: Thank you HN

#131

Post by DanBC »

braythwayt wrote: post #123
DanBC wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to point out that we know that exercise helps with moods. The data is there. No, we really don't. We don't even have evidence that exercise is better than doing nothing.

Actually, we do. It's not a cure-all. You shouldn't suddenly become a rabid "big psychiatry and big pharama are frauds, just exercise, eat right, and get 8 hours of sleep" zealot. But modest improvements in symptoms have been shown time and time again. More modest than many claim, but non-zero. The link you posted says so: > Exercise is moderately more effective than a control intervention for > reducing symptoms of…

Just so we're clear: exercise is moderately better than doing nothing unless you only include good studies, when even that modest benefit disappears.

Exercise as a treatment for depression does nothing for most people, and has only a tiny effect for the rest.

Re: Thank you HN

#132

Post by DanBC »

meiraleal wrote: post #124
DanBC wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to point out that we know that exercise helps with moods. The data is there. No, we really don't. We don't even have evidence that exercise is better than doing nothing.

If by "we" you mean you and your sources, ok. I do have evidence that exercise is better than doing nothing FOR ME.

Great.

My hippy aunt believes crystal healing and homeopathy cures cancer, but I'm not going to start telling people to buy amethyst.

Re: Thank you HN

#133

Post by CodeWriter23 »

pknerd wrote: post #98
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone suggested to me that my anger was inwardly focused and that had a direct causative effect on my depression. That rang true for me. So my first work on that was to get my anger directed in an outward fashion. At first, that entailed literally breaking stuff, chopping wood, climbing steep hills on my bike until it hurt, just get that energy going in the right direction. Get it out in the moment instead of bottl…

> When I felt anger, I would pause, take a breath and assess why I felt wronged in a situation For me, it is not easy. How do you manage to pause at first place?

Speaking purely from my own experience, it takes practice. It wasn’t easy and at first I had no gap between the stimulus and my response. Taking responsibility that my anger is mine and isn’t caused by the other party made it clear in my mind it was up to me to change. "They" aren't "making" me angry; I am angry because "they" have broken some of "my" rules. Sometimes my rules are valid and sometimes not.

The gap widened over time. This is really a process of the heart/spirit/inner goodness, there isn’t any way to think your way through it. It’s about making the commitment to address the behavior, practice and self honesty.

All that said, and all my years of practice, I can still be quick to anger especially in the case of those I have judged to be morons (there's "my" rules coming into play again). But it is nowhere near the same level as what was making me depressed some time ago. And that’s the key point I’m trying to make through my comments here. Look to addressing your inner anger if you’re depressed. Especially when angry with yourself. I want to be really clear I have anger in my life. I do my best to channel it constructively, but I’m no floating in the clouds guru spreading love and unicorn farts across the galaxy. I’ve just found some ways to deal with it and experience some benefit as a result.

Re: Thank you HN

#134

Post by braythwayt »

DanBC wrote: post #131
braythwayt wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, we do. It's not a cure-all. You shouldn't suddenly become a rabid "big psychiatry and big pharama are frauds, just exercise, eat right, and get 8 hours of sleep" zealot. But modest improvements in symptoms have been shown time and time again. More modest than many claim, but non-zero. The link you posted says so: > Exercise is moderately more effective than a control intervention for > reducing symptoms of…

Just so we're clear: exercise is moderately better than doing nothing unless you only include good studies, when even that modest benefit disappears. Exercise as a treatment for depression does nothing for most people, and has only a tiny effect for the rest.

It would help if you would quote the relevant explanation that explains why their own summary—and I quote it again—does not say what I think it says.

The "Author's Summary" says:

  > analysis of methodologically robust trials only shows a smaller effect in favour of exercise.
The summary does not seem to say that that the effect disappears. The summary seems to say that the effect is smaller when you only include "methodologically robust" studies, which I interpret to be synonymous with what you describe as "good" studies.

Can you please share what you're reading that says that the effect disappears entirely? Or perhaps you are quoting a different review than the one you linked?

Re: Thank you HN

#136

Post by kartman »

dgudkov wrote: post #44

>...and started working out I can't emphasize enough how much this helps. If anyone is suffering from depressions, anxiety and overthinking -- consider starting working out. It will make wonders to your mood. I'm not saying that it will fix your suffering entirely, because it typically requires a mental effort as well. But it will make your life noticeably more enjoyable.

For some this might work: 1. Just put your goal as lying flat in bed and moving your arms up and down 10 times in 180 deg. 2. Then move your legs up and down 10 times. Stop. dont do more. Leave it at that. Do it again next morning or evening maybe 12 times. Then do what ever tempts you next. Try it, at the least it wont hurt I hope :) and starts you at level 2 in the next few days.

Re: Thank you HN

#137

Post by meiraleal »

DanBC wrote: post #132
meiraleal wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by "we" you mean you and your sources, ok. I do have evidence that exercise is better than doing nothing FOR ME.

Great. My hippy aunt believes crystal healing and homeopathy cures cancer, but I'm not going to start telling people to buy amethyst.

Now we have evidence that lack of exercise is not good for the mood.

Re: Thank you HN

#138

Post by OmIsMyShield »

pknerd wrote: post #98
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone suggested to me that my anger was inwardly focused and that had a direct causative effect on my depression. That rang true for me. So my first work on that was to get my anger directed in an outward fashion. At first, that entailed literally breaking stuff, chopping wood, climbing steep hills on my bike until it hurt, just get that energy going in the right direction. Get it out in the moment instead of bottl…

> When I felt anger, I would pause, take a breath and assess why I felt wronged in a situation For me, it is not easy. How do you manage to pause at first place?

I too struggle very often with the pause and the recognition of emotion before acting on it.

Something that has been somewhat helpful to me is a meditation method called mental noting. Please note no method will work for everyone but in case it's useful to you, here goes.

Basically, my version, please do search for more qualified people's version of mental noting on the internet:

1) Rest attention on my breathing

2) Notice (I don't always notice, I don't often notice, but sometimes I do) that I'm distracted

3) Note and label the distraction (mentally say "I'm thinking" or "I'm itching" or "I'm worrying" or "I'm replaying conversation" etc)

4) Thank the distraction for allowing me to flex the mental "noticing muscle"

4.5) Remind myself not to beat myself up about how long I was distracted, haha

5) GOTO 1

This practice has helped me in slowly building up a mental observer that can pause from time to time. But, as I said, I still struggle with the pause.

Re: Thank you HN

#139

Post by anotherevan »

qntty wrote: post #120
tribesman wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>“When I was young, I used to admire intelligent people; as I grow older, I admire kind people.” It's the function of their risk profile. Young want to maximize payoff which is possible through intelligence, old ones want to reduce their risk so are subject to soceity's kindness.

You seem very intelligent

I was going to write something similar about him being young, but then decided I was being too clever on the internet.

Re: Thank you HN

#140

Post by mikorym »

mikec3010 wrote: post #119
joekrill wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you mean well, but this is not good advice. The benefits of exercise are so vast and varied, and study after study has confirmed not only the physical benefits, but the mental benefits as well. To compare it to listening to music or some other "engaging pursuits" is just completely wrong. Is it hard to start exercising? Sure. I imagine it's hard to do a lot of things initially, especially when someone is depre…

You recommend soccer but discourage running because it's competitive?

I recommend alternatives, since I find runners to be intimidating to non-runners. I find it to be similar to the cycling community. Perhaps it is more about the social stress around it. Soccer can be very competitive, but in general people would be accommodating if, for instance, you are very unfit or if you're not good at it. There are no "times" and no "how many times per week".

Personally I like running a lot, but many of my friends do not. I dislike running with other people and generally avoid the runner's fad. I am not sure if my intention is clear, but I wanted to point out that a balance of activities is often (and in my case) what works for a person going through a dark time.

In my case, I can go through a dark period while at the same time exercising regularly. Someone mentioned the need for external stimuli in recovery. I think for some people, running can be overstimulation. I do think for this reason other activities are important—a good example is drumming, which after an hour or two can be a work out. If people want to achieve their goals, there needs to be a large enough pool of possible goals (which, perhaps, there is) that fits personality and physical circumstances.

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