Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015) • Hacker News Board

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#181

Post by volkk » Mon, Aug 13, 2018, 6:27 PM UTC

Coding_Cat wrote: post #92

volkk wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the worst kind of selective enforcement - random enforcement. Very similar to the way police behave w/ regards to speeding tickets. Set extremely low speeds that don't make sense on highways. Allow most people to go 10-15 above. But then also sometimes choose random people to screw over when it's the end of the month and they need to hit their quotas.

>Set extremely low speeds that don't make sense on highways. Allow most people to go 10-15 above. I doubt people really speed because the limits have been set too low and the people know better what is an ideal speed limit. I think people_think_ they know better what the speed limit is, and/or reason "well if 60mph is okay, 75 mph can't be that bad, I'm barely speeding and I'm in a rush". At least, that's the attitud…

Anecdotally speaking, I've driven a lot and 75-80 is ideal speed for me. When I drove in texas where in certain areas, the speed limit is 80-85, I still drove around 80. Once you hit 85/90, a car just becomes too shaky/unstable feeling.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#182

Post by curiousgeorgio » Mon, Aug 13, 2018, 6:29 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #98

stephengillie wrote: post #3

I'm annoyed that there is no simple system for the IRS to tell me what I owe, and let me pay or dispute. Instead, we play this game where the IRS provides a bunch of complicated documents, I guess which ones to fill out and submit, then wait 3 years to see if I was randomly chosen to see if I was correct. So it's very easy to make a mistake for dozens of years, then suddenly be penalized at random. It's the worst kin…

The IRS has actually run trials like this in the past. Very successful, at least for simply W2-based returns, since most people's taxable transactions get reported by companies anyway (i.e., mortgages/interest, other income, etc.) and most people use the standardized deduction. Inuit and Quicken subsequently lobbied to end those programs and even bar the IRS from running similar programs...

Nearly everyone I've talked to (on both sides of the political spectrum) agrees on this issue; if the IRS has the means to verify and audit the data, they might as well prepare the forms and just get authorization (+ any additional info they might be lacking) before tax returns are submitted.

So how is it that lobbying alone is enough to persuade lawmakers to take the side of Intuit et al.? And which lawmakers are so easily "bought" at the detriment of the public? I'm just as pessimistic as anyone when it comes to the corruption of our government, but this seems like a pretty black and white issue. There must be more to it...

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#183

Post by felideon » Mon, Aug 13, 2018, 6:30 PM UTC

woobar wrote: post #163

cortesoft wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding about how people drive. People don't look at a speed limit and then drive 15 over; they drive the speed they feel comfortable with, regardless of the speed limit. Studies have shown this: Q. Wouldn’t everyone drive faster if the speed limit was raised? A. No, the majority of drivers will not go faster than what they feel is comfortable and safe regardless of the speed l…

> they drive the speed they feel comfortable with, regardless of the speed limit My anecdata does not support this. When roads are not congested, I can see that most drivers accelerate from ~70+mph to ~80+mph right ofter the speed limit sign changes from 60 to 70.

Yes, because they are comfortable at higher speeds than what is posted. Just that they'd rather only drive +10mph of what's posted to avoid speeding tickets.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#184

Post by ryandrake » Mon, Aug 13, 2018, 6:31 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #132

kartan wrote: post #51

I have paid taxes in Sweden and Spain. In both countries, I get a preliminary tax form with all my data. If I don't want to change anything I just need to go online. Click Accept. And pay with my credit card the difference between what my employer pays to the government monthly and the total, around 100$. It is very efficient. I have the feeling that apart from lobbying USA loves to hate taxes. To make paying taxes o…

This is certainly true. In particular, Americans for Tax Reform (the group founded by Grover Norquist) lobbies against any attempt at making paying taxes easier for this reason. Their argument is that people should be constantly aware of how much they are paying in taxes, and making it too easy would hinder this. These groups, combined with tax preparation companies, prevent any meaningful attempt to make paying taxe…

> Their argument is that people should be constantly aware of how much they are paying in taxes, and making it too easy would hinder this.

Which is so stupid because so many people have no idea at all what they pay in taxes because of employer withholding. I knew more than one coworker who thought they didnt pay taxes because they get a check back at the end of the year. They had no idea how withholding worked until I explained it to them. Note that these were otherwise smart adults (software engineers).

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#185

Post by ghaff » Mon, Aug 13, 2018, 6:31 PM UTC

ryanianian wrote: post #121

stephengillie wrote: post #3

I'm annoyed that there is no simple system for the IRS to tell me what I owe, and let me pay or dispute. Instead, we play this game where the IRS provides a bunch of complicated documents, I guess which ones to fill out and submit, then wait 3 years to see if I was randomly chosen to see if I was correct. So it's very easy to make a mistake for dozens of years, then suddenly be penalized at random. It's the worst kin…

> The IRS have all the data Not..entirely true. My 2016 taxes were professionally done, but we somehow forgot to include one of the something-something-1099 forms from a brokerage firm. The brokerage reported some RSU stock-sells to the IRS but didn't report the cost-basis, and so the IRS assumed the cost-basis was $0 and thus taxed the full sale as income (effectively double-taxing all the RSUs). They just sent a ta…

RSU cost-basis reporting isn't at all intuitive for some reason. The information you need is in brokerage details but, as I recall, the summary realized gains use a cost basis of $0.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#186

Post by sDlEzAtyoNAz » Mon, Aug 13, 2018, 6:31 PM UTC

Joeri wrote: post #142

scarface74 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.sehinc.com/news/truth-about-speed-limits-explaine... There is no guarantee that a speed limit will have any effect on driving behaviors. The fact is, when driving, most motorists choose a speed in which they personally feel both comfortable and safe.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn#Travel_speeds on a free-flowing section in 1992, the recorded average speed was 132 km/h (82 mph) with 51% of drivers exceeding the recommended speed. The autobahn has a long history proving that people feel comfortable and safe at excessive velocities.

Are you suggesting those "excessive" velocities are not actually safe?

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#187

Post by seanmcdirmid » Mon, Aug 13, 2018, 6:33 PM UTC

pratheekrebala wrote: post #140

ryanianian wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The IRS have all the data Not..entirely true. My 2016 taxes were professionally done, but we somehow forgot to include one of the something-something-1099 forms from a brokerage firm. The brokerage reported some RSU stock-sells to the IRS but didn't report the cost-basis, and so the IRS assumed the cost-basis was $0 and thus taxed the full sale as income (effectively double-taxing all the RSUs). They just sent a ta…

I don't think this would prevent you from using a CPA or Itemizing your return. However, this system could be very beneficial for the 68.5% of the population that doesn't itemize[1]. [1] https://taxfoundation.org/who-itemizes-deductions/

I never itemized and I’m pretty sure the IRS could never do my tax forms while I was in China...heck, they never even asked for anything like a W2 since my income was all foreign.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#188

Post by wccrawford » Mon, Aug 13, 2018, 6:35 PM UTC

woobar wrote: post #163

cortesoft wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding about how people drive. People don't look at a speed limit and then drive 15 over; they drive the speed they feel comfortable with, regardless of the speed limit. Studies have shown this: Q. Wouldn’t everyone drive faster if the speed limit was raised? A. No, the majority of drivers will not go faster than what they feel is comfortable and safe regardless of the speed l…

> they drive the speed they feel comfortable with, regardless of the speed limit My anecdata does not support this. When roads are not congested, I can see that most drivers accelerate from ~70+mph to ~80+mph right ofter the speed limit sign changes from 60 to 70.

I think what you're seeing is that most people know that up to 10mph over the limit is pretty safe in regards to getting a speeding ticket.

That's separate from how fast they think is safe on the freeway in general from a physical standpoint. If there were no limits posted, they'd go even faster.

So basically I'm saying that both you and the parent poster are both correct. It's just that more than just physical safety is being taken into account.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#189

Post by southphillyman » Mon, Aug 13, 2018, 6:36 PM UTC

ryanianian wrote: post #121

stephengillie wrote: post #3

I'm annoyed that there is no simple system for the IRS to tell me what I owe, and let me pay or dispute. Instead, we play this game where the IRS provides a bunch of complicated documents, I guess which ones to fill out and submit, then wait 3 years to see if I was randomly chosen to see if I was correct. So it's very easy to make a mistake for dozens of years, then suddenly be penalized at random. It's the worst kin…

> The IRS have all the data Not..entirely true. My 2016 taxes were professionally done, but we somehow forgot to include one of the something-something-1099 forms from a brokerage firm. The brokerage reported some RSU stock-sells to the IRS but didn't report the cost-basis, and so the IRS assumed the cost-basis was $0 and thus taxed the full sale as income (effectively double-taxing all the RSUs). They just sent a ta…

This happened to me as well, they processed every transaction as pure profit. I don't see how this disproves that they had the data though. They literally had every transaction I made that year as reported by the brokerage, they just didn't use the data right largely because I'm still required to spoon it to them correctly.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#190

Post by mFixman » Mon, Aug 13, 2018, 6:37 PM UTC

noir_lord wrote: post #63

rb808 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lower taxes? In France the bracket for a family for €104,120 to €279,132 is only 30%. Sure if you live in Oaklahoma you might pay less than that but CA/NY state taxes plus property taxes, plus fewer investment tax free options, I think US taxes are now similar or higher. Ie 28% federal + 10% state + 10% property taxes equals nearly 50%. Sure sales tax is lower. Plus - you still have to pay for your medical care, and…

In the UK you don't pay 45% until 150,000 and only 45% on any amount over 150,000 as it's tiered.

Raising income tax rates is unpopular, so the UK government adds hidden income taxes that aren't reported anywhere.

You need to add 12% to your marginal tax rate before £46500 per year for national insurance payments (and 2% after that), and 20% between £100k and £121k per year for the loss of the standard deduction. The real marginal tax rate for someone making £100k is 62%.

Also include 12% employer's NI (which by law isn't included in your salary, but must be paid by your employer), and a nice 20% sales tax levied on everyone except people with a significant amount of savings.