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Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

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Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#161

Post by whatok »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #136
whatok wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reasoning against many simplified tax filing proposals is that many of them reduce transparency and arguably raise taxes in an indirect sense because it makes it harder to file for deductions. I agree with that if you keep the current underlying tax system but just "simplify" filing.

While I suppose it depends on the proposal in question, the ones I've seen generally follow a "make the simple cases easier" rule: get the forms pre-filled with what's possible to prefill, verify what's filled in is correct, and if necessary, complete what's missing. If you need to file for deductions that such a system misses, it doesn't have to be any harder than it is now.

Think about how users interact with software and how often they adjust default settings. Any additional forms outside of the pre-filled forms will likely get ignored by a sizable amount of people. That's what I meant by an indirect tax hike.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#162

Post by ryanianian »

dionidium wrote: post #151
ryanianian wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The IRS have all the data Not..entirely true. My 2016 taxes were professionally done, but we somehow forgot to include one of the something-something-1099 forms from a brokerage firm. The brokerage reported some RSU stock-sells to the IRS but didn't report the cost-basis, and so the IRS assumed the cost-basis was $0 and thus taxed the full sale as income (effectively double-taxing all the RSUs). They just sent a ta…

> Not..entirely true. Obviously. You should read categorical statements like this one as, "The IRS [often and in many of the most common cases] have all the data." That's a generally-applicable, useful, mental substitution that saves us from unnecessary and constant waffling and equivocation in everyday conversation.

You missed the conclusion/point of the reply. It's that I (personally) don't trust the government and banks/agencies enough to actually make this a trustworthy proposition, and I have data-points to back up my intuition.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#163

Post by woobar »

cortesoft wrote: post #119
Coding_Cat wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Set extremely low speeds that don't make sense on highways. Allow most people to go 10-15 above. I doubt people really speed because the limits have been set too low and the people know better what is an ideal speed limit. I think people_think_ they know better what the speed limit is, and/or reason "well if 60mph is okay, 75 mph can't be that bad, I'm barely speeding and I'm in a rush". At least, that's the attitud…

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding about how people drive. People don't look at a speed limit and then drive 15 over; they drive the speed they feel comfortable with, regardless of the speed limit. Studies have shown this: Q. Wouldn’t everyone drive faster if the speed limit was raised? A. No, the majority of drivers will not go faster than what they feel is comfortable and safe regardless of the speed l…

> they drive the speed they feel comfortable with, regardless of the speed limit

My anecdata does not support this. When roads are not congested, I can see that most drivers accelerate from ~70+mph to ~80+mph right ofter the speed limit sign changes from 60 to 70.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#164

Post by pilom »

icedchai wrote: post #78
stephengillie wrote: post #3

I'm annoyed that there is no simple system for the IRS to tell me what I owe, and let me pay or dispute. Instead, we play this game where the IRS provides a bunch of complicated documents, I guess which ones to fill out and submit, then wait 3 years to see if I was randomly chosen to see if I was correct. So it's very easy to make a mistake for dozens of years, then suddenly be penalized at random. It's the worst kin…

This would be nice, but they may not actually have all of the data: itemized deductions being one major missing piece.

Starting for 2018 taxes, the standard deduction was doubled to $12,000 for a single filer and $24,000 for a married couple. Combine that with no longer being able to deduct state income taxes and there will be fewer people than ever actually itemizing deductions this year.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#165

Post by sokoloff »

scarface74 wrote: post #139
icedchai wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some, yes. However, in some cases, no. For example, I have a sole proprietor with a lot of 'business expenses' (web hosting, software licenses, etc.) Those get deducted. It would be nice to get this streamlined! taxes are such a chore. Too bad there's a multi billion dollar industry - tax preparation and accounting - supported by taxes. It will never happen.

It wouldn’t be meant to cover every case. But most people have simple taxes - they receive an income from a job and investments that are already reported and thier only deductions are charity, home mortgage, state taxes and dependent (or did that change this year?)

Cost basis accounting/tracking for investments was only required for covered securities starting in 2010 to 2013, depending on the type of security involved.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#166

Post by SilasX »

mikeyouse wrote: post #123
SilasX wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? That's the basis of saying that the anti-tax pledge prohibits IRS tax prep? The number of deductions and credits is orthogonal to whether the IRS can save you the effort of collecting the information about what they think you owe.

Not the basis at all, just one example. Here's another good one that OP added at the end in an edit: > It’s no secret that the IRS and big spenders in Washington, D.C. want to socialize all tax preparation in America. The (ironically-named) IRS Office of Taxpayer Advocate has been pushing for IRS preparation of tax returns for years. There’s only one reason proponents want to do this—tax revenues. If the IRS invites…

Alright, those would have been better excerpts to cite.

The second quote is ridiculous -- it would mean the IRS shouldn't have a public facing free information site at all, that you should have to find someone else to tell you anything whatsoever about paying your taxes at all.

The third seems like a deliberate strawman -- all proposals would involve you needing to approve the IRS quote.

Unserious, indeed.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#167

Post by sgustard »

cortesoft wrote: post #132
kartan wrote: post #51

I have paid taxes in Sweden and Spain. In both countries, I get a preliminary tax form with all my data. If I don't want to change anything I just need to go online. Click Accept. And pay with my credit card the difference between what my employer pays to the government monthly and the total, around 100$. It is very efficient. I have the feeling that apart from lobbying USA loves to hate taxes. To make paying taxes o…

This is certainly true. In particular, Americans for Tax Reform (the group founded by Grover Norquist) lobbies against any attempt at making paying taxes easier for this reason. Their argument is that people should be constantly aware of how much they are paying in taxes, and making it too easy would hinder this. These groups, combined with tax preparation companies, prevent any meaningful attempt to make paying taxe…

Most people have tax withheld from their paycheck then are delighted to receive a refund the next year. I don't think that provides any meaningful awareness of how much they are really paying, any more than if the process were entirely automatic.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#168

Post by sf_rob »

stephengillie wrote: post #3

I'm annoyed that there is no simple system for the IRS to tell me what I owe, and let me pay or dispute. Instead, we play this game where the IRS provides a bunch of complicated documents, I guess which ones to fill out and submit, then wait 3 years to see if I was randomly chosen to see if I was correct. So it's very easy to make a mistake for dozens of years, then suddenly be penalized at random. It's the worst kin…

>then wait 3 years to see if I was randomly chosen to see if I was correct.

My CPA friend told me that Money Magazine used to send fairly complex personal income tax packets to 50 different tax preparers annually (grain of salt: I haven't been able to find the article). She recalled that the best year had about 4 preparers get the same calculation as the plurality.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#169

Post by mikestew »

dyarosla wrote: post #156
cortesoft wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding about how people drive. People don't look at a speed limit and then drive 15 over; they drive the speed they feel comfortable with, regardless of the speed limit. Studies have shown this: Q. Wouldn’t everyone drive faster if the speed limit was raised? A. No, the majority of drivers will not go faster than what they feel is comfortable and safe regardless of the speed l…

I don’t think dismissing the parent comment based on a study is fair. Anecdotally, I drive the way the parent describes, and several comments also corroborate with that. Likely that a non negligible portion of the population drive this way.

I don’t think dismissing the parent comment based on a study is fair.

Well, there's a surprising turn of events on HN: an appeal to discard the findings of a study in favor of one poster's suppositions, and another's anecdata. :-)

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? (2015)

#170

Post by Xixi »

gamblor956 wrote: post #108
rb808 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lower taxes? In France the bracket for a family for €104,120 to €279,132 is only 30%. Sure if you live in Oaklahoma you might pay less than that but CA/NY state taxes plus property taxes, plus fewer investment tax free options, I think US taxes are now similar or higher. Ie 28% federal + 10% state + 10% property taxes equals nearly 50%. Sure sales tax is lower. Plus - you still have to pay for your medical care, and…

In France, that 30% tax is on your gross income without deductions, and doesn't include a number of other taxes on your income that were already taken out as payroll taxes, usually about 10-20% of your wage income. In the US, you face a 24% or 25% tax on your gross income after deductions, not including additional credits that may also apply. Payroll tax deductions are also much smaller in the US. Not aware of any st…

"Charges salariales" + "Charges patronales": it's way more than 10-20%. It's around 28% for a minimum wage worker, and around 45% for a software engineer making 45k "brut" / year.
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