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From Father to Son, Last Words to Live by (2007)

nytimes.com

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Re: From Father to Son, Last Words to Live by (2007)

#21

Post by baxtr »

davchana wrote: post #16
baxtr wrote: post #3

Sad story. As a side note: After years trying to catch my thoughts on a computer, I’ve came to realize that handwriting is much more effective tool for me. My thoughts start flowing once I have a pen in my hand. Now I have a series of diaries that I use with several people, my wife, myself, my late mum.

When you say "with", do you mean you write a letter & other person writes an answer letter in that same diary? E.g. with wife; does that means letters between you both in that diary?

Yes, that's what we do, but not on a daily basis. Usually, when I'm on a business trip, I either take the booklet with me or I leave it with her and she writes her down thoughts.

Thinking of it, we had something like that in high school, where (usually girls) would use a single book with her best friend back and forth. We called it "Briefbuch" (letter book) in German.

Re: From Father to Son, Last Words to Live by (2007)

#22

Post by antod »

mango7283 wrote: post #18
saiya-jin wrote: post #8

> ... giving their lives for their country This is so surreal to somebody from Europe - how can you justify to be on the moral, just side (or even look at yourself in the mirror and call yourself a good christian or just a good person), when you go to place half around the world which did no aggression towards your home country, invade it, rape it, kill civilians left and right and utterly destroy it for generations…

Is being Europe really relevent? NATO forces were involved in Afghanistan... Are they different from American soldiers in this regard?

This was about Iraq though. Apart from the UK, NATO pretty much stayed out of that. And despite having less to justify it, the consequences (direct and indirect) of invading Iraq were worse than invading Afghanistan.

Re: From Father to Son, Last Words to Live by (2007)

#24

Post by saiya-jin »

mango7283 wrote: post #18
saiya-jin wrote: post #8

> ... giving their lives for their country This is so surreal to somebody from Europe - how can you justify to be on the moral, just side (or even look at yourself in the mirror and call yourself a good christian or just a good person), when you go to place half around the world which did no aggression towards your home country, invade it, rape it, kill civilians left and right and utterly destroy it for generations…

Is being Europe really relevent? NATO forces were involved in Afghanistan... Are they different from American soldiers in this regard?

As other poster mentioned I meant mainly Iraq where situation is different, sorry for not being more clear.

In most European countries if not all, if politicians tried to sell some remote unjust war they want to start by striking patriotic tunes (so people would make similar ridiculous claims), they would get laughed at/outright rejected. Politicians would have to put in place mandatory drafts and even then a lot of people would run away/go rather to jail.

It just feels so surreal to be so much out of touch with reality in a modern western world in 21st century to believe in such lies and very much risk their lives for them.

Now if somebody couldn't care less about shooting kids, mums and old people and of course patriots and other random folks on the other side and wants to have adrenaline ride, that's another story. But lets be honest about this.

Re: From Father to Son, Last Words to Live by (2007)

#25

Post by seventhtiger »

saiya-jin wrote: post #8

> ... giving their lives for their country This is so surreal to somebody from Europe - how can you justify to be on the moral, just side (or even look at yourself in the mirror and call yourself a good christian or just a good person), when you go to place half around the world which did no aggression towards your home country, invade it, rape it, kill civilians left and right and utterly destroy it for generations…

America has not been invaded. The closest you get is 9/11 and Pearl Harbor. Their cultural memory does not respect the horrors of a foreign invasion. The only people who experience war are young men who go halfway across the world then come back hailed as heroes. Their old WW2 veterans still haven't experienced their hometown being firebombed to ash and dust.

In most of the world you can point to the rubble a city was built on and the older generations will tell you about it.

Re: From Father to Son, Last Words to Live by (2007)

#26

Post by zaarn »

mango7283 wrote: post #18
saiya-jin wrote: post #8

> ... giving their lives for their country This is so surreal to somebody from Europe - how can you justify to be on the moral, just side (or even look at yourself in the mirror and call yourself a good christian or just a good person), when you go to place half around the world which did no aggression towards your home country, invade it, rape it, kill civilians left and right and utterly destroy it for generations…

Is being Europe really relevent? NATO forces were involved in Afghanistan... Are they different from American soldiers in this regard?

Even at peak my country deployed only a little over 5000 soldiers into Afghanistan, a majority of those for supportive and police roles, not for active combat. Even that is being opposed.

Re: From Father to Son, Last Words to Live by (2007)

#27

Post by mango7283 »

saiya-jin wrote: post #24
mango7283 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is being Europe really relevent? NATO forces were involved in Afghanistan... Are they different from American soldiers in this regard?

As other poster mentioned I meant mainly Iraq where situation is different, sorry for not being more clear. In most European countries if not all, if politicians tried to sell some remote unjust war they want to start by striking patriotic tunes (so people would make similar ridiculous claims), they would get laughed at/outright rejected. Politicians would have to put in place mandatory drafts and even then a lot of…

Fair enough. Even so, NATO countries still participate in other military operations such as the bombings in Syria and Libya - is the difference that those had the force of UN resolutions behind them, involved only air attacks and were not sold on the back of patriotism?

Re: From Father to Son, Last Words to Live by (2007)

#28

Post by cjslep »

baxtr wrote: post #3

Sad story. As a side note: After years trying to catch my thoughts on a computer, I’ve came to realize that handwriting is much more effective tool for me. My thoughts start flowing once I have a pen in my hand. Now I have a series of diaries that I use with several people, my wife, myself, my late mum.

Years ago, I bought a cheap starter fountain pen, a journal, stamps, envelopes, and paper. Writing letters and journaling is definitely different than typing (the pace is different), and a fountain pen means I can write pages without the fatigue that comes from ballpoint pens.

I'm sitting here with that same pen and a tiny notebook for my thoughts in my pocket.

It's nice to look back and see what I was randomly thinking of on a given day, and go back and expand/elaborate or reflect on it.

Re: From Father to Son, Last Words to Live by (2007)

#29

Post by bovermyer »

seventhtiger wrote: post #25
saiya-jin wrote: post #8

> ... giving their lives for their country This is so surreal to somebody from Europe - how can you justify to be on the moral, just side (or even look at yourself in the mirror and call yourself a good christian or just a good person), when you go to place half around the world which did no aggression towards your home country, invade it, rape it, kill civilians left and right and utterly destroy it for generations…

America has not been invaded. The closest you get is 9/11 and Pearl Harbor. Their cultural memory does not respect the horrors of a foreign invasion. The only people who experience war are young men who go halfway across the world then come back hailed as heroes. Their old WW2 veterans still haven't experienced their hometown being firebombed to ash and dust. In most of the world you can point to the rubble a city wa…

America has been invaded, actually.

First in 1812, by the British.

There were two more invasions by foreign armies in 1915 and 1916, but I'm not sure they count, since they weren't sovereign powers and were quickly dealt with.

But you're right, there is no living American who remembers an invasion of our territory.

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