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How to Lose $3B of Bitcoin in India

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Re: How to Lose $3B of Bitcoin in India

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a developer in Bangalore. It was glorious. One thing to understand is that in India regular small time business owners are involved in a lot of tax evasion. They don't report their income fully and thus always have a huge stash of cash lying around. The biggest use for this is to buy real estate. Before demonetisation, if you want to buy a house or apartment it was usual to discuss the cash and registration amoun…

> Now, all of this bullshit is gone What? > I'll have to pay everything from my bank account, which will get tracked eventually to the seller I purchase my house from. Sorry dude. You are disconnected from reality. Workaround always exist. People still prefer to pay, as much as possible in cash, to save on that huge registration fees. This demonitization was just a smoke in people's eyes. Those big thugs are still sc…

> Workaround always exist

Of course. Every system has workarounds.

> People still prefer to pay, as much as possible in cash, to save on that huge registration fees.

For large real-estate companies, like Aparna Constructions in Hyderabad, most of the transaction is with fully accounted money. About 10% of the transaction is with un-accounted for cash.

Cash transactions are happening with smaller builders, but even they are finding it difficult to find buyers with a lot of liquid cash.

Now most of the money is being moved through faceless anonymous companies, and those are a step above unaccounted cash, when it comes to tracking and monitoring cash flow in the economy.

> This demonitization was just a smoke in people's eyes.

Perhaps, but along with the introduction of GST, I now find even traditional traders who usually prefer not to give a bill with a sale (for construction items, cement, steel, electrical wires, equipment, etc) are insisting on a GST bill. It was a really big surprise to me.

Also, this is a political masterstroke. Most of the country is below middle class and hardly every see a 2000 Rs. note. Most of them don't have much liquid cash. Most of them are happy that the rich are finally 'getting it' as in, finally there is someone in power who is not afraid to walk the talk.

Whether this is just smoke and mirrors is a different debate. But for most of the country, most of the poor people in the country, it's a eye-brow raising move, a very big talking point for worker level party operatives.

My personal opinion is that these sorts of actions are required to take the populace from cash to digital transactions. Waiting for natural course of movement to digital transactions will take an un-accptably long time.

With demonitization, many farmers, people in remote villages, even street vendors are using digital transactions. Credit-card use has increased, digital payments from mobile phones has increased.

Most importantly, the concept of digital transactions, virtual cash, in some very remote places, even the concept of bank accounts has entered into the greater public consciousness.

> Those big thugs are still scaming the banks and fleeing the country with billions of Rupees.

This happens in even the most developed countries. Even in the US, Europe, UK etc. The only difference is there the money is transferred to accounts in the Cayman islands, here in India, perhaps some other route.

Re: How to Lose $3B of Bitcoin in India

#52

Shouldn't the headline read Bitconnect not bitcoin?

I'm not sure if either is appropriate. Bitconnect is worth nothing, so no matter how many bitconnect coins were lost, they would be worth $0 not $3B.

The title seems almost unrelated to the article. The title refers to money lost in the bitconnect ponzi scheme, but the article is mostly about kidnapping schemes worth much less money, and that demanded payment in bitcoins.

Re: How to Lose $3B of Bitcoin in India

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a developer in Bangalore. It was glorious. One thing to understand is that in India regular small time business owners are involved in a lot of tax evasion. They don't report their income fully and thus always have a huge stash of cash lying around. The biggest use for this is to buy real estate. Before demonetisation, if you want to buy a house or apartment it was usual to discuss the cash and registration amoun…

> Now, all of this bullshit is gone What? > I'll have to pay everything from my bank account, which will get tracked eventually to the seller I purchase my house from. Sorry dude. You are disconnected from reality. Workaround always exist. People still prefer to pay, as much as possible in cash, to save on that huge registration fees. This demonitization was just a smoke in people's eyes. Those big thugs are still sc…

They are tightening them with RERA act etc. If you have noticed income tax and GST registration are sky high. So much that government had to reduce the GST. India is and will become cash free. Sooner or later.

Re: How to Lose $3B of Bitcoin in India

#54
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't creation be manipulation too? As in the creation of the genesis block with Bitcoin?

but everybody knows the approx. creation rate of bitcoins. Fiat money creation is not predictable to the same mathematical degree.

No one knows who Satoshi Nakamoto is, if he's alive, and whether he will use his bitcoin in the future. He could move the market if he chooses. At one point he was an oligarch, correct? He had money and political power as far as Bitcoin is concerned.

Re: How to Lose $3B of Bitcoin in India

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now, all of this bullshit is gone What? > I'll have to pay everything from my bank account, which will get tracked eventually to the seller I purchase my house from. Sorry dude. You are disconnected from reality. Workaround always exist. People still prefer to pay, as much as possible in cash, to save on that huge registration fees. This demonitization was just a smoke in people's eyes. Those big thugs are still sc…

> Workaround always exist Of course. Every system has workarounds. > People still prefer to pay, as much as possible in cash, to save on that huge registration fees. For large real-estate companies, like Aparna Constructions in Hyderabad, most of the transaction is with fully accounted money. About 10% of the transaction is with un-accounted for cash. Cash transactions are happening with smaller builders, but even th…

[deleted]

Re: How to Lose $3B of Bitcoin in India

#56
post #20
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience is: AMP version: not loading, I assumed due to blocked JS, but I just went back to check, and oh it finally loaded.. so maybe it eventually falls back with my first-party-only JS policy. Non-AMP version: immediate load, perfectly readable, refreshed with no JS (not even first-party) and it's imperceptibly fast. (Reloaded the AMP version again with no JS just to check, and of course - without the JS to s…

> AMP version: not loading, I assumed due to blocked JS, but I just went back to check, and oh it finally loaded.. so maybe it eventually falls back with my first-party-only JS policy. Looks like the culprit is this piece of code: body { animation:-amp-start 8s steps(1,end) 0s 1 normal both} @keyframes -amp-start{from{visibility:hidden}to{visibility:visible} } Why they purposely degrade the experience is beyond me.

Because they can. A advertising company punishes people who run adblockers, nothing surprising

Re: How to Lose $3B of Bitcoin in India

#57

From the article, it seems like I didn't really understand the implications of Modi's actions to invalidate so much hard currency. Could someone familiar with the matter talk more about what the days/weeks following Modi's announcement looked like for the every day Indian?

Indians with large amounts of hard currency are usually involved in some sort of tax evasive maneuver and sometimes involved in criminal activity. Corrupt politicians will use enormous amounts of currency to influence elections, so in this case the party in power (BJP, similar in ideology to US Republican party) used demonetization to disarm other political parties before the elections while appearing hard on corrupt…

> The only people who were hurt were the average people

This is exactly what my experience and observation have been too!

Even the upper middle class folks had the work around ready and at times recommended to them by their bank managers. I work in Bangalore (South) but I am from UP (North) and one thing, in both the regions, I learned from traders and rich people regarding demonetisation that it was not more than a minor or major (in many cases when too much black money was involved) annoyance for them.

PS. I am from the region that borders Nepal. A lot of money was moved to Nepal during that period as demonetisation apparently didn't apply to INR in circulation in Nepal (INR is quite common there).

Re: How to Lose $3B of Bitcoin in India

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now, all of this bullshit is gone What? > I'll have to pay everything from my bank account, which will get tracked eventually to the seller I purchase my house from. Sorry dude. You are disconnected from reality. Workaround always exist. People still prefer to pay, as much as possible in cash, to save on that huge registration fees. This demonitization was just a smoke in people's eyes. Those big thugs are still sc…

They are tightening them with RERA act etc. If you have noticed income tax and GST registration are sky high. So much that government had to reduce the GST. India is and will become cash free. Sooner or later.

Yup, RERA is a big boon for the consumer.

Re: How to Lose $3B of Bitcoin in India

#59
post #32

They can't even complain...like calling the cops because someone robbed your cocaine stash* (* for those that didn't read the article: India banned large bills, say, their $100 bills. People had x months to turn it in to exchange with smaller bills. But you had to explain how you got that much money and why didn't declare it to the taxman. So quite a few turned to Bitcoin etc.)

For some perspective, the bills that were revoked were the 500 and 1000 Indian Rupee notes. 500 INR was worth around 7 to 8 US Dollars at the time, so the comparison to 100 USD bills is around an order of magnitude too great, despite things being cheaper in India.

I meant to say that they banned their own version of $100, meaning the largest bill

Re: How to Lose $3B of Bitcoin in India

#60

From the article, it seems like I didn't really understand the implications of Modi's actions to invalidate so much hard currency. Could someone familiar with the matter talk more about what the days/weeks following Modi's announcement looked like for the every day Indian?

I'm a developer in Bangalore. It was glorious. One thing to understand is that in India regular small time business owners are involved in a lot of tax evasion. They don't report their income fully and thus always have a huge stash of cash lying around. The biggest use for this is to buy real estate. Before demonetisation, if you want to buy a house or apartment it was usual to discuss the cash and registration amoun…

How are you disadvantaged?

A majority of the indian economy is in the unorganized sector - and India has large tools to ensure that we recover taxes via transaction taxes.

All this does is demolish that sector - and thus harm the larger economy on which the organized sector depends.

Wishes and horses - we may want the whole sector to be organized and transparent - but this isn't going to happen quickly.

Its going to take time, and gradual improvement in laws AND in understanding/education + convenience for compliance.

Theres an optimal path, and nothing else.

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