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Google's censored Chinese search engine: a catalogue of ethical violations?

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Re: Google's censored Chinese search engine: a catalogue of ethical violations?

#11

Post by caibkai »

snek wrote: post #3
c3534l wrote: post #2

It's really unfortunate that abiding by local laws and regulations is considered unethical. But even if we assume that there is no legal way for a company to operate ethically in China, is the world meant to close our borders to them entirely? 20% of the planet lives there and we do business with China every day when we buy something manufactured there, but do not feel morally required to boycott them on account of t…

Google Search provides information. Blocking access to information is, by the nature of the action, disenfranchising and oppressive. If Google were to re-enter the Chinese market, their Search product would either be controlled by the current government or they would be kicked out. I would argue that Google providing censored results is harmful to that 20%, so it is better to stay out.

Baidu has monopolized power in Chinese market as a search engine. It sold advertisement to fake hospital and ranked the advertisement as a top searching result. A young Chinese student died because of the fake hospital advertisement (Wei Zexi scandal). A censored google can still create more competition. How could it be harmful to that 20%?

Re: Google's censored Chinese search engine: a catalogue of ethical violations?

#12

Post by xiii1408 »

amarkov wrote: post #10
ben_jones wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's really unfortunate that abiding by local laws and regulations is considered unethical. What about local laws in countries that are deeply homophobic? Is it unfortunate if countries don't hand over lists of gay users?

Certainly not. But is Google planning to hand over lists of users who search for banned terms? It seems like there's a big difference between handing over lists of users and restricting information.

They'll almost certainly hand over user data to the central government. They're required to partner with a Chinese firm, and this is a fairly common practice among Chinese technology companies.

Re: Google's censored Chinese search engine: a catalogue of ethical violations?

#13

Post by lx3459683 »

c3534l wrote: post #2

It's really unfortunate that abiding by local laws and regulations is considered unethical. But even if we assume that there is no legal way for a company to operate ethically in China, is the world meant to close our borders to them entirely? 20% of the planet lives there and we do business with China every day when we buy something manufactured there, but do not feel morally required to boycott them on account of t…

> It's really unfortunate that abiding by local laws and regulations is considered unethical.

Ethical and legal are two entirely different concepts. What's really unfortunate is there's a significant number of people who haven't been able to break out of their indoctrination to equate these things and to follow laws without questioning them or assessing the ethics involved.

The overwhelming majority of laws is written by the rich and powerful to represent their interests, which are entirely divorced from ethics. It is the ethical responsibility of every individual to refuse to abide by those laws and act to change them. We can't pretend that your kind of viewpoint is acceptable. We have had too many historical examples of people committing some of the worst atrocities of all time while abiding by the laws of the time and 'just following orders'.

I'm upvoting you so we can keep this terrifying sentiment at the top of the thread for all to see and discuss.

Re: Google's censored Chinese search engine: a catalogue of ethical violations?

#15

Post by claydavisss »

Yet you all cheer when the SPLC implements thoughtcrime right here in the "land of the free".

I hate to indulge the cliche "snowflake", but the notions you all have of what should and shouldn't be on the web is increasingly looking like what your professor told you to think.

Or do only white Americans get to decide what is "hate speech"? Why won't you respect what other cultures determine "hateful"? You certainly expect them to accept your notions...

Re: Google's censored Chinese search engine: a catalogue of ethical violations?

#16

Post by AntiGameZ »

Some people at China desperately want to access Google for a better search experience. Is a 80% percent of Google better than no Google at all for Chinese people? If people is dying and you have the cure with a little bit stains, is the ethical violated if you save people with a imperfect way or just let the pantient to die is a better option?

Re: Google's censored Chinese search engine: a catalogue of ethical violations?

#17

Post by throwaway484722 »

AntiGameZ wrote: post #16

Some people at China desperately want to access Google for a better search experience. Is a 80% percent of Google better than no Google at all for Chinese people? If people is dying and you have the cure with a little bit stains, is the ethical violated if you save people with a imperfect way or just let the pantient to die is a better option?

No, because currently they’re forced to use a VPN and see the full thing, which is what most people do because results are way better than Baidu (even in 中文).

Re: Google's censored Chinese search engine: a catalogue of ethical violations?

#18

Post by [deleted] »

AntiGameZ wrote: post #16

Some people at China desperately want to access Google for a better search experience. Is a 80% percent of Google better than no Google at all for Chinese people? If people is dying and you have the cure with a little bit stains, is the ethical violated if you save people with a imperfect way or just let the pantient to die is a better option?

[deleted]

Re: Google's censored Chinese search engine: a catalogue of ethical violations?

#20

Post by ataturk »

c3534l wrote: post #2

It's really unfortunate that abiding by local laws and regulations is considered unethical. But even if we assume that there is no legal way for a company to operate ethically in China, is the world meant to close our borders to them entirely? 20% of the planet lives there and we do business with China every day when we buy something manufactured there, but do not feel morally required to boycott them on account of t…

We don't have to close them off entirely, but we do have to acknowledge the problem in our faces. Google would be happy to apply the censorship worldwide, not just in China!

If Western culture isn't dead, if our Western legal traditions mean anything at all (I'm talking about individual rights here) then we have to fight the good fight for ourselves and on behalf of those who can't. Otherwise we'll succumb to the least common denominator because technocrats simply don't care.

I'll tell you the truth--I don' think the new generation in SV has any understanding of history whatsoever. I think they believe they are the most brilliant, infallible people in the world. So I don't have a great outlook on what our future holds because it's always like this when a generation arrogantly forgets the past and thinks that nothing bad can ever happen. SV is almost 100% Democrats, coincidence?

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