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Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

theguardian.com

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Re: Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

#71

Post by tananaev »

cies wrote: post #65
barking wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WFPB, whole food plant based diet. No meat, no fish, no dairy. You can eat fruit but you can't juice it. Seems a bit of a misery diet to me.

Juicing, cooking, tofu making is minimally pocessed and generally accepted in WFPB circles. I't the point where you refine something (oil from seeds, sugar from beets) where it is against the protocol. > Seems a bit of a misery diet to me. I was not trying to make you happy. I stated it has a lot of science on it's side. There are some great cooking resources on how to make it taste/look/whatever great. Wanna know mo…

I like the interpretation of minimally processed food as something that you can fairly easy make in your own kitchen. Freshly squeezed juice is fine. Packaged juice from concentrate with added refined sugar is not.

Re: Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

#72

Post by cies »

dogma1138 wrote: post #53
cies wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK, butter is still worse then no butter (and more calories from whole plant foods instead). Margarine may or may not be worse than butter (I think it is worse). It is better to avoid/reduce all refined fats (oils), except maybe for a high DHA omega 3 supplement. If you want to eat for health, look into WFPB, they have a lot of science on their side.

High carb or low carb high protein diets which any low fat diet would turn into is a terrible idea in the both short and long term as they are glucose focused you want to avoid high blood sugar and high insulin levels since insulin causes your body to store fat. Fats are not inherently bad for you, doesn’t matter if they are plant based or not.

All primates eat high carb. They are not fat.

It is fat that blocks insulin on yr cells. No (or little) fat and you can absorb your carbs as nature intended.

> Fats are not inherently bad for you, doesn’t matter if they are plant based or not.

I agree. It is the refined fats that are bad.

Re: Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

#73

Post by cies »

tananaev wrote: post #71
cies wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Juicing, cooking, tofu making is minimally pocessed and generally accepted in WFPB circles. I't the point where you refine something (oil from seeds, sugar from beets) where it is against the protocol. > Seems a bit of a misery diet to me. I was not trying to make you happy. I stated it has a lot of science on it's side. There are some great cooking resources on how to make it taste/look/whatever great. Wanna know mo…

I like the interpretation of minimally processed food as something that you can fairly easy make in your own kitchen. Freshly squeezed juice is fine. Packaged juice from concentrate with added refined sugar is not.

Correct. Still juicing what you can eat WITH the fiber is better consumed as a whole. I therefor prefer juicing veggies over fruit (which I prefer to blend if not eat straight)

Re: Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

#74

Post by cies »

pkaye wrote: post #49
cies wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK, butter is still worse then no butter (and more calories from whole plant foods instead). Margarine may or may not be worse than butter (I think it is worse). It is better to avoid/reduce all refined fats (oils), except maybe for a high DHA omega 3 supplement. If you want to eat for health, look into WFPB, they have a lot of science on their side.

How about between butter and sugar? Which is worse?

I'd avoid both. But if I have to pick one to eat 4 tblsp from every day, I pick sugar hands down.

Re: Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

#75

Post by NoPicklez »

JeanMarcS wrote: post #31

During the heat wave in France this summer, messages to old persons were to drink regularly (which sometimes they forget) So a quarter of medical consultations related to elders and heat was for a lack of salt [0]. From Google translate it’s call hyponatremia. So as stated in other comments, moderation, may be, lack, bad idea. I’m actually in Ireland. They seem to have taken the salt part very seriously, as everythin…

After doing endurance exercise 80km+ bike rides each weekend, sodium and other forms of electrolytes are incredibly important. Without them I lose fluids and I get crazy leg cramps.

The issue is that salt tastes good, so people load it on their food to the point where it is unhealthy.

It's the same with sugar, there is a huge industry bashing sugar at the moment, but sugar is essential for the human body. They are bashing sugar and creating fear because alot of people (myself included at times) eat way too much sugar, because its so easy to do, but it does create adverse health effects. That doesn't mean sugar is bad, just that eating copious amounts of highly refined sugar is bad for you.

Try exercising without a healthy blood sugar level due to lack of complex sugars.

Now we have this keto industry where people think twice about eating fruit due to it being high in sugar, FRUIT for god sake.

Re: Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

#76

Post by cies »

dogma1138 wrote: post #59
pkaye wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about between butter and sugar? Which is worse?

Butter is not bad it came from the time where liver function and metabolism was not as well understood, the worst thing you can have is insulin resistance which both high carb and high protein diets can cause as they both revolve around glucose. I would highly recommend to avoid any diet which is less than 30-40% in calories from fat. That said the worst thing you can have is high fat and high carb since the insulin…

> I would highly recommend to avoid any diet which is less than 30-40% in calories from fat.

Our GI tract is very similar to that of primates. I think it is best to eat like they do: HCLF.

> That said the worst thing you can have is high fat and high carb

100% agree.

> the insulin would cause your body to store all the fat and turn the extra sugar into more fat.

Nope. The extra glucose with spike in your blood (as the fay blocks your insulin on the cells), glucose is only converted to fat a tiny bit.

Re: Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

#77

Post by tananaev »

quakenul wrote: post #36
cies wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK, butter is still worse then no butter (and more calories from whole plant foods instead). Margarine may or may not be worse than butter (I think it is worse). It is better to avoid/reduce all refined fats (oils), except maybe for a high DHA omega 3 supplement. If you want to eat for health, look into WFPB, they have a lot of science on their side.

Getting definitive information on nutrition always seems to be a lot harder than it should be in 2018

The problem with nutrition is that it's a very sensitive topic for people. Everyone wants to hear that what they eat is healthy, so "science" delivers on that demand.

For myself I decided to go with WFPB diet because pretty much everyone agrees that fruits, vegetables, greens and whole grains are good for you. There's no controversy there.

Re: Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

#78

Post by CommieBobDole »

macspoofing wrote: post #54
clumsysmurf wrote: post #16

And to play devil's advocate, the opposite findings from just this June https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/06/180622012101.h...

Nutrition Science is a huge mess even though it is a core part of human health. As in, it is a total disaster. Here's something depressing to think about: if the Keto people are correct, mainstream nutrition science was a key contributor to American obesity crisis and resulted in countless premature deaths and major suffering over the last few decades. Anyway, recently I wanted to look into whether or not eggs are go…

Well, there's the problem that most of the effects are pretty small - most of the really dramatic effects have already been discovered. So it's not a matter of "People who eat X every day develop intestinal lesions and die within 18 months", it's more like "People who eat X every day have a lifetime increase in the incidence of toe cancer from .016 to .02".

Combine that with the fact that these effects take years or decades to show themselves, it makes for an area of science with very few hard answers.

Re: Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

#79

Post by anfilt »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #21
maxxxxx wrote: post #17

As with almost everything else moderation is key. Some salt is good, too much is bad. The question is where you are on that scale.

> too much is bad In what way? Your kidneys dump any excess salt your body doesn't need. The long standing 20th century salt alarmism has no basis in reality.

If you were to eat lets say a pound of salt (probably lethal). You probably would have to be rushed to the ER. Your body can only process things so fast and deal with changes so quickly. Obviously, a person would not eat a pound of salt in one sitting. So you body can not dump any excess salt. It can dump excess to a point.

Re: Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

#80

Post by maneesh »

NoPicklez wrote: post #75
JeanMarcS wrote: post #31

During the heat wave in France this summer, messages to old persons were to drink regularly (which sometimes they forget) So a quarter of medical consultations related to elders and heat was for a lack of salt [0]. From Google translate it’s call hyponatremia. So as stated in other comments, moderation, may be, lack, bad idea. I’m actually in Ireland. They seem to have taken the salt part very seriously, as everythin…

After doing endurance exercise 80km+ bike rides each weekend, sodium and other forms of electrolytes are incredibly important. Without them I lose fluids and I get crazy leg cramps. The issue is that salt tastes good, so people load it on their food to the point where it is unhealthy. It's the same with sugar, there is a huge industry bashing sugar at the moment, but sugar is essential for the human body. They are ba…

I agree with everything you say, except the second to last paragraph. My endurance increased immensely by switching to keto, due to no longer using glucose as an energy source (instead, ketones).
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