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A Dutch first: Ingenious BMW theft attempt

mrooding.me

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Re: A Dutch first: Ingenious BMW theft attempt

#311

Post by seriousaccount1 »

lucb1e wrote: post #146
hellofunk wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here in downtown Amsterdam we called the police because the rear window of someone's car had just been smashed outside our office, and the police's response was "Has anyone been hurt? Nope? Then we're not coming". Amsterdam currently has a big police shortage, that's why. It's not normal, it's just a problem in Amsterdam. https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/07/amsterdam-is-not-lawle...

> It's not normal, it's just a problem in Amsterdam. Right, the two times we needed police in Limburg (Echt and Maastricht, few years apart) it didn't happen either. It had to be life-threatening and the people didn't literally shout "we'll kill you" so the police wasn't gonna bother. Meanwhile on TV they're cycling through parks to fine people some 99 euros for not having a well-behaved dog on a leash (could have us…

The problem with discretion is how do you recognize or punish repeat offenders? How do you know the dog is well behaved? How should they know?

And standing still for two minutes is parking. And someone who is actually disabled cannot park there, and cannot see (and request) for the person to leave.

Re: A Dutch first: Ingenious BMW theft attempt

#312

Post by seriousaccount1 »

lucb1e wrote: post #287
Freak_NL wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor dude? You don't park in a disabled spot unless you have a right to be there. That should be common sense.

It was wrong and s/he was caught, but that fine is just ridiculous. Sure, someone who stood there for 2 hours in a busy spot where disabled people were indeed turned away, then they definitely chose to risk that fine. But when someone was standing with the car (not even parked) for 2 minutes, I might (as police(wo)man) decide to give a warning instead. That fine is disproportionate. Most people on HN probably earn en…

The police do not make up the height of the fines. It’s a common annoyance that assholes park in places they shouldn’t. This is a way they won’t do it again.

Re: A Dutch first: Ingenious BMW theft attempt

#313

Post by dx034 »

fjsolwmv wrote: post #186
bawana wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not just Amsterdam. I had a car accident on Route 128 in Massachusetts during rush hour. I called the state police - they asked if anyone was hurt and when I told them no they said 'just exchange information with the other driver'. The opportunity here is for fraud prevention. Maybe that's what will eventually drive our desire for ubiquitous surveillance.

Why would you need police for an accident? Your insurance companies negotiate liability based on your statements. It's a civil matter, unless want to request criminal charges for reckless driving?

Most rental companies in Europe require a police report for any kind of accident, their insurance won't pay without one.

Re: A Dutch first: Ingenious BMW theft attempt

#314

Post by dx034 »

Chris2048 wrote: post #253
gst wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several years ago someone tried to climb into our apartment window in Amsterdam (with another guy waiting with a motorbike as getaway vehicle on the street). He was standing on the windowsill and tried to break open the window (it was open but we had one of those locks that limits how far the window opens, so he didn't fit through the gap). They fled once we noticed them. When we tried to report that incident to the…

Standing on someones windowsill isn't illegal?

Probably trespassing but that's no reason to send officers after the event has occurred.

Re: A Dutch first: Ingenious BMW theft attempt

#315

Post by donkeyd »

gitgud wrote: post #215
donkeyd wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless it’s been going on for a while but executed perfectly so nobody would find a trace My boss's car was stolen in broad daylight in front of a client's warehouse. This isn't a busy area, but it isn't extremely quiet either. The car had GPS tracking, but it disappeared without a trace. The police guessed that it was driven into the back of a closed truck and straight away transported to Eastern Europe.

Incredible, was there ctv footage? Reading things like this makes me realise how easy it is to steal things still. Much like the old days when people could exchange fake cheques at banks for cash... Most of the world is still built on trust.

> makes me realise how easy it is to steal things still

I just found this through Reddit and had to think of your comment:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colton_Harris_Moore

Re: A Dutch first: Ingenious BMW theft attempt

#316

Post by jinzo »

Rjevski wrote: post #261
tpxl wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is what I meant, but that sounds insane to me.

It is probably retrieving the "SKC" code which is necessary to program keys. However, this is by no means secure where the car's ECU will happily dump its entire storage (including the SKC code) over the diagnostics port if you ask nicely.

No, not programming keys per se. But re-sync RF part of the already coded key, so you can unlock it with a push of a button.

Also, I have quite a problem with dumping entire storage (EEPROM parts for example, that contain SKC/PIN). Also, my experiance is that getting that info from modern ECUs is not that straightforward/there aren't many (in some cases any) tools to get it.

Re: A Dutch first: Ingenious BMW theft attempt

#317

Post by wjnc »

hvidgaard wrote: post #223
wjnc wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, BMW-thieves are incredibly resourceful. They managed to steal parts of the dashboard and airbag from my neighbours car, without further damage, while in the driveway with the alarms not triggered on a modern 3-series. All the neighbour noticed was the dog barking a few times at night. We all sleep within 30 ft of that car. Practice makes perfect. Those parts are sourced to eastern Europe and are stolen on demand…

It's a widespread problem right now. It happens in waves, and if you go to BMW dealers in larger cities it's not uncommon to see 4-5 5 series missing the dashboard and airbags. What I don't understand is what are they using it for? Can they upgrade older models with it?

Sorry for the late reply. The story (I'm in insurance, but no means to check for validity) is that in Europe total losses are sold for their chassis numbers and then pretty much built up from stolen parts in Eastern Europe. I had a bad run in with a likewise situation when someone crashed into my rear and the offer for the wreck was way high. That meant I had to go get a new one, since via technical total loss I could not get my own car repaired without financial risk.

Re: A Dutch first: Ingenious BMW theft attempt

#318

Post by Rjevski »

jinzo wrote: post #316
Rjevski wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is probably retrieving the "SKC" code which is necessary to program keys. However, this is by no means secure where the car's ECU will happily dump its entire storage (including the SKC code) over the diagnostics port if you ask nicely.

No, not programming keys per se. But re-sync RF part of the already coded key, so you can unlock it with a push of a button. Also, I have quite a problem with dumping entire storage (EEPROM parts for example, that contain SKC/PIN). Also, my experiance is that getting that info from modern ECUs is not that straightforward/there aren't many (in some cases any) tools to get it.

Look up “VAG Tacho”: http://maltchev.com/kiti/

This tool successfully recovers SKC codes from pretty much any VAG Group’s (Volkswagen, Audi, Seat, Skoda) cars. It can also do other things like edit the odometer and probably more. It’s simply using “undocumented” (although is anything there documented?) commands of the diagnostics protocol to get raw access to the persistent storage.

Re: A Dutch first: Ingenious BMW theft attempt

#319

Post by chriscappuccio »

acct1771 wrote: post #148
kccqzy wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you taken a look at a Tesla car yet? From PR materials I'm led to believe that they treat their car software seriously. I doubt one can install untrusted firmware on a Tesla car; is that so?

Stripping or modding a Tesla would be the only way I'd get one...and I'd really like to. Very interested in what happens in this thread.

Search IAAI and Copart auctions

Re: A Dutch first: Ingenious BMW theft attempt

#320

Post by csomar »

tpm wrote: post #136
avar wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a huge difference between the US and EU in this regard. If I steal a car in California and try to sell it in Nevada, I can expect to be arrested. If I have a car stolen in The Netherlands and it's being sold in Romania, and I find out who's selling it and where, I'll be told that I have to travel to Romania and file report with the local police there before they'll do anything. The only inter-state enforcemen…

Romania is not in Schengen area so they shouldn't get there, the farthest they would get to in that direction is Hungary, at least in theory. Anyway a few year ago my car was stolen in Slovakia (the insurance paid out so my loss was minimal) and was found after a year in Hungary - the thieves were trying to sell it but it was found out they tried to change the VIN. Because apparently you can't register a car with a s…

> Romania is not in Schengen area so they shouldn't get there

Why is that? Plenty of stolen European cars roaming in Algeria and Tunisia. And with the help of corrupt officers they are registered here.

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