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Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

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Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#201

Post by scarface74 »

potta_coffee wrote: post #146
chrisseaton wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google and Apple have created and invested in their platforms - it’s not insane for them to make profit from them.

They've created an artificial need for the platforms by closing their systems. Open systems don't require these kinds of platforms. I can install whatever I want on my PC and I like it that way.

Yes you can, and so can the unwashed masses that have 10 toolbars in IE, ransomware, viruses, etc.

And it’s not just dumb people downloading from shady sources. Look for a printer driver online and you’re just as likely to find a fake malware site as the real site.

The need for trusted sources for downloading apps with limited permissions can easily be seen if you look at some people’s PCs - or Android devices.

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#202

Post by scarface74 »

jpdus wrote: post #130

I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I am still a big fan of Android´s openess (at least compared to the walled garden that is iOS) and I think it should the right of every company or developer to NOT use a closed platform to distribute its app. However on the other hand, this move by Epic sets a dangerous precedent: Factually, Google get´s economically punished for being more open than Apple. This does…

From a business point-of-view (when sideloading becomes more common) the "right" move for Google would be to fork AOSP, make new Android versions as closed as iOS (while still distributed for free) and prevent any sideloading.

You haven’t been paying attention...

Google has been abandoning AOSP for years and making closed source equivalents.

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#203

Post by scarface74 »

Pissompons wrote: post #179
jpdus wrote: post #130

I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I am still a big fan of Android´s openess (at least compared to the walled garden that is iOS) and I think it should the right of every company or developer to NOT use a closed platform to distribute its app. However on the other hand, this move by Epic sets a dangerous precedent: Factually, Google get´s economically punished for being more open than Apple. This does…

> From a business point-of-view (when sideloading becomes more common) the "right" move for Google would be to fork AOSP, make new Android versions as closed as iOS (while still distributed for free) and prevent any sideloading. No sane CEO who is measured by increasing shareholder value could justify stayig open if this jeopardizes the revenues without providing major benefits. The problem here is that while Google…

- Leverage/convince all the OEMs into adopting the closed fork

You mean like they already force OEMs to use thier closed source apps and force them not to make any phones that are use Android forks?

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#204

Post by scarface74 »

RandomException wrote: post #162
jpdus wrote: post #130

I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I am still a big fan of Android´s openess (at least compared to the walled garden that is iOS) and I think it should the right of every company or developer to NOT use a closed platform to distribute its app. However on the other hand, this move by Epic sets a dangerous precedent: Factually, Google get´s economically punished for being more open than Apple. This does…

There are already multiple separate app stores for Android and not just the Google Play. This is nothing new for Google to be honest. And if they were to make Android a closed system, what would make me buy an Android phone instead of an iOS phone anymore? Openness is one of the biggest selling points for Android.

People don’t buy Android because it’s “open” - they buy it because it’s cheap. If people cared about open, the “Year of Linux on the Desktop” would have already happened.

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#205

Post by [deleted] »

dbt00 wrote: post #163
izacus wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a few years the media (which has always been very pro-Apple) has internalized the idea, that all your software MUST come from a single corporation controlled walled garden and pay tax to them. The whole concept of being able to install software from a source you choose is now so foreign that they'll speak against it when possible. And unfortunately, this seems to be the case with a lot of HN commenters as well.

I've been running open source, free, libre, etc software since the mid-90s. My firewall is openbsd. my laptop runs linux. I use emacs for most of my software editing. I want you to understand that I am a big open source weenie, and have been for decades. I think asking consumers to evaluate risk of installing third party apps and manage permissions is insane. My phone runs iOS. My family the same. The volume of malwa…

[deleted]

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#206

Post by iashugd3 »

dbt00 wrote: post #163
izacus wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a few years the media (which has always been very pro-Apple) has internalized the idea, that all your software MUST come from a single corporation controlled walled garden and pay tax to them. The whole concept of being able to install software from a source you choose is now so foreign that they'll speak against it when possible. And unfortunately, this seems to be the case with a lot of HN commenters as well.

I've been running open source, free, libre, etc software since the mid-90s. My firewall is openbsd. my laptop runs linux. I use emacs for most of my software editing. I want you to understand that I am a big open source weenie, and have been for decades. I think asking consumers to evaluate risk of installing third party apps and manage permissions is insane. My phone runs iOS. My family the same. The volume of malwa…

That's not accurate. Side-loading applications is certainly a risk but not Play Store.

"In 2016, the annual probability that a user downloaded a PHA (potentially harmful applications) from Google Play was .04% and we reduced that by 50% in 2017 for an annual average of .02%.

In 2017, downloading a PHA from Google Play was less likely than the odds of an asteroid hitting the earth."

Source: https://source.android.com/security/reports/Google_Android_S...

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#207

Post by krn »

Eridrus wrote: post #187
Pissompons wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about the 30% of store tax must cover the cost of developing, operating and supporting their Open Platforms Operating System? > Google doesn't charge them a cent for using Android. Why should Epic care about Android's development costs? They don't pay Microsoft a cent for Windows, why should they pay Google for Android? Google chose this business model, software developers certainly have no obligation to suppor…

> Why should Epic care about Android's development costs? He seems to care about console makers' costs and considers their 30% there reasonable, but he does not seem to consider them reasonable here. > Why overpay for Google's? I don't think he's under any obligation too, but it's interesting to see platforms like Steam gain traction despite not handling most of the investment in the platform, and that's on Windows w…

> He seems to care about console makers' costs and considers their 30% there reasonable, but he does not seem to consider them reasonable here.

Because the absolute majority of Android devices are not made by Google, just like the absolute majority of Windows devices are not made by Microsoft. What if Microsoft took away 30% of revenue from all software developers publishing on Windows Store?

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#208

Post by RandomException »

scarface74 wrote: post #204
RandomException wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are already multiple separate app stores for Android and not just the Google Play. This is nothing new for Google to be honest. And if they were to make Android a closed system, what would make me buy an Android phone instead of an iOS phone anymore? Openness is one of the biggest selling points for Android.

People don’t buy Android because it’s “open” - they buy it because it’s cheap. If people cared about open, the “Year of Linux on the Desktop” would have already happened.

Android is cheap and it's widely used because it's open. If manufacturers weren't able to customize it to their needs, we would still be living in a world with separate OSes for every single manufacturer. This is important especially in Asia where the market is completely different from western market. In Asia it's also very important to be able to live without Google proprietary software in Android because for example in China it's currently blocked. They are using Baidu for all the things we are using Google services for.

Year of Linux on the Desktop is hard to see since corporate users are so tightly coupled with MS ecosystem. If Microsoft could build at least equivalent mobile OS as Android or iOS, they would get pretty much all corporate customers to themselves and it would most definitely affect private customers as well. Oh, and Windows has gotten a lot better in the last 10 years so there's really no need for a basic user to change over to Linux.

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#209

Post by Teknoman117 »

learc83 wrote: post #92
Teknoman117 wrote: post #75

Amazon Video / Prime Video takes the exact same approach. You have to sideload Amazon's app store to install the player.

Looks like it's on google play right now, and I have it installed and don't remember sideloading.

Interesting. It wasn’t always there.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/splash/sd/t/appstore

Re: Google will lose $50M or more in 2018 from Fortnite bypassing the Play Store

#210

Post by windows_tips »

benmowa wrote: post #66
windows_tips wrote: post #4

That's a strange definition of lose. A third party doesn't contract with someone for their product launch, and that is considered a loss of money?

"Unlike Apple, which only allows apps to be downloaded from its own storefront" So as i read it, the argument being made is: if Google had chosen the same path as apple did in their app store, Google would not have missed this opportunity.

So you're saying this publisher would have used Google's store, even though they didn't when they had the choice, if Google had locked down its phone?
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