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UN says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps

reuters.com

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Re: UN says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps

#41

Post by darpa_escapee »

394549 wrote: post #38
anoncoward111 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go on youtube and instagram and check out all of the normal white dudes posting content from Xinjiang.

> Go on youtube and instagram and check out all of the normal white dudes posting content from Xinjiang. Are they poking around, looking for evidence of mass detentions? Or are they complaining about how they "spent more time being frustrated, bored, and whinging about lost funds than actually enjoying ourselves" ( https://www.lostwithpurpose.com/why-we-didnt-like-traveling-... )?

For all of his dismay at the population for being distrustful towards foreigners, it's probably for a good reason.

People disappear if they talk to foreign journalists and nosy travellers with cameras and western ideals.

Re: UN says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps

#42

Post by AnimalMuppet »

eeeuo wrote: post #39
eyeareque wrote: post #12

I met someone who was from China say that these people in these camps are being “harmonized”. It’s interesting how things can be perceived when the government controls the media.

From a purely Orwellian standpoint, I think the Russian model of government/media interaction is more effective. There is "freedom of press" in Russia, and there are opposition media groups, but they are toothless. Journalists that publish scoops on high-level Russian government figure are in serious danger. Therefore, the opposition media produces watered down, safer takes. This allows state media to refute the oppo…

> If, instead, the NK government accurately portrayed what life looks like in SK, but provided reasons and justifications for the difference, they would not have this problem.

I think they still would. People (at least some) would look at the difference, look at the alleged justification for the difference, and think that the justification was bunk.

Re: UN says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps

#43

Post by meowface »

eeeuo wrote: post #39
eyeareque wrote: post #12

I met someone who was from China say that these people in these camps are being “harmonized”. It’s interesting how things can be perceived when the government controls the media.

From a purely Orwellian standpoint, I think the Russian model of government/media interaction is more effective. There is "freedom of press" in Russia, and there are opposition media groups, but they are toothless. Journalists that publish scoops on high-level Russian government figure are in serious danger. Therefore, the opposition media produces watered down, safer takes. This allows state media to refute the oppo…

Russia has had much more time to hone their information warfare and propaganda abilities. And now that they're led by a KGB officer with extensive experience in political manipulation, they're effectively a Chekist state and can synchronize narratives in very politically savvy ways, like you stated.

Re: UN says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps

#44

Post by ralusek »

tjr225 wrote: post #24
eyeareque wrote: post #12

I met someone who was from China say that these people in these camps are being “harmonized”. It’s interesting how things can be perceived when the government controls the media.

It's not so different when private entities control both the government and the media - in the case of conservative money controlling conservative propaganda arms such as Fox News and in turn conservative money also controlling congresspeople via PACs and campaign funding. Sometimes the things my Fox News Junkie Parents In Law say makes me very worried for their mental well being and the well being of our voting publ…

There are many similarities between oppressive states and large corporations, but they are not the same. If there is a market for a spectrum of biases in the media, which there clearly is, the spectrum of those biases will manifest in available media, which it has.

Your parents have chosen the lense through which to consume information, so have you. This is not a luxury afforded by an oppressive state.

Re: UN says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps

#45

Post by vatueil »

oh_sigh wrote: post #29
vatueil wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reports, such as the ones gathered in the posted link? There have been many other articles about Uighurs in Xianxing, too. The Economist covered the latest reports a few months ago, which was discussed on HN: * https://www.economist.com/briefing/2018/05/31/china-has-turn... * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17215966 This is not a surprise, if you've been paying attention to the CCP's ham-handed attempts to handl…

No, because the posted link doesn't provide any numbers of reports. What does it say? > The allegations came from multiple sources, including activist group Chinese Human Rights Defenders, which said in a report last month that 21 percent of all arrests recorded in China in 2017 were in Xinjiang. I was thinking multiple orders of magnitude more reports if there really were 2 million missing people. Like, thousands of…

Would it be better if there were only 500k Uighurs interned for political reasons, one of the more moderate estimates cited? I ask because I notice you went from 1 million in your original comment to 2 million in your reply.

Where do you expect to hear these reports, if not from human rights organizations? On Chinese censored social media or state news? It's not like the prisoners are on Twitter and Facebook.

Reading the reports, it's hard even for dedicated journalists and investigators to convince people to open up. Do you expect families of the victims to be less afraid to speak to tourists?

The articles linked in the comments in this thread provide numerous personal reports, if the statistics used to arrive at the estimates of people detained are too impersonal for your liking.

EDIT: Another report: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/new-eviden...

Re: UN says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps

#46

Post by jonhendry18 »

Zaheer wrote: post #13

Also happening right now: "China mosque demolition sparks standoff in Ningxia" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-45140551 Although this isn't the Uighur population, the Han Muslim population also faces some level of discrimination.

A Christian church in China was demolished by government not long ago for similar bureaucratic reasons as this mosque. This may not be a case of anti-Muslim discrimination as more general anti-religious discrimination. (Or anti-religious group not blessed by the party).

Which is not to say there isn't lots of anti-Muslim/anti-Uighur repression in China.

Re: UN says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps

#47

Post by jonhendry18 »

anoncoward111 wrote: post #6
oh_sigh wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A million people probably have at least 10x more relatives and friends on the outside. Ways of breaching the great firewall are well known even within China. Shouldn't there be...numerous reports of missing persons if this is the case?

That's what I was thinking too. Westerners visit Xinjiang province with cameras. If 1m people disappeared, I'm sure someone would come up to a Westerner to tell their story. 40,000 people were disappeared en masse in Chile by Pinochet. That story made it out very quickly, and only a few photographs exist of it

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/meghara/the-police-stat...

KASHGAR, China — This is a city where growing a beard can get you reported to the police. So can inviting too many people to your wedding, or naming your child Muhammad or Medina.

Driving or taking a bus to a neighboring town, you’d hit checkpoints where armed police officers might search your phone for banned apps like Facebook or Twitter, and scroll through your text messages to see if you had used any religious language.

You would be particularly worried about making phone calls to friends and family abroad. Hours later, you might find police officers knocking at your door and asking questions that make you suspect they were listening in the whole time.

Re: UN says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps

#49

Post by aembleton »

shiburizu wrote: post #40

I really do think in a few years this will be in the history books as the next chapter of the history of internment camps established by despots throughout the years, next to south America and eastern Europe. I really fear for what we may find out about 10 years after it's said and done and we'll all reflect on how surely this wasn't so crazy when we heard about it in the press.

Also North Korea

Re: UN says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps

#50

Post by anoncoward111 »

jonhendry18 wrote: post #47
anoncoward111 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I was thinking too. Westerners visit Xinjiang province with cameras. If 1m people disappeared, I'm sure someone would come up to a Westerner to tell their story. 40,000 people were disappeared en masse in Chile by Pinochet. That story made it out very quickly, and only a few photographs exist of it

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/meghara/the-police-stat... KASHGAR, China — This is a city where growing a beard can get you reported to the police. So can inviting too many people to your wedding, or naming your child Muhammad or Medina. Driving or taking a bus to a neighboring town, you’d hit checkpoints where armed police officers might search your phone for banned apps like Facebook or Twitter, and scroll th…

The human rights situation is appalling in Xinjiang, dont get me wrong. Chinese goverment doing this are near genocidal.

However it is another thing to claim 1m Uighurs are being forcibly detained somewhere. That is a lot of people. The Uighurs are not a large population. Everyone would know someone politically detained. We would have thousands of videos of people begging for information about the whereabouts of their loved ones.

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