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UN says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps

reuters.com

11–20 of 58 posts

Re: UN says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps

#11
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A million people probably have at least 10x more relatives and friends on the outside. Ways of breaching the great firewall are well known even within China. Shouldn't there be...numerous reports of missing persons if this is the case?

That's what I was thinking too. Westerners visit Xinjiang province with cameras. If 1m people disappeared, I'm sure someone would come up to a Westerner to tell their story. 40,000 people were disappeared en masse in Chile by Pinochet. That story made it out very quickly, and only a few photographs exist of it

> That's what I was thinking too. Westerners visit Xinjiang province with cameras. If 1m people disappeared, I'm sure someone would come up to a Westerner to tell their story.

China isn't a western country, and I don't think you can count on being granted western-levels of freedom of movement there, especially in "sensitive" areas. For instance, I understand you need a special permit to visit Tibet, which is another province with similar ethnic tensions.

The level of surveillance in Xinjiang is so intense that the locals will often get questioned by the police about contacts with foreigners (e.g. getting a phone or skype call from abroad). The locals probably aren't eager to talk to foreigners about sensitive topics because they fear reprisal.

China also has special visas for journalists, and something tells me that that they'll deny the application if your itinerary includes areas where they don't want people poking around. If you're applying for a tourist visa, in some cases (like if you work for a newspaper) it's advised that you promise that you'll not engage in journalism during your trip. I'm guessing the Chinese will interpret a bunch of foreigners poking around sensitive areas with cameras as people practicing unauthorized journalism, put a stop to it, and maybe even deport those people for visa violations.

Re: UN says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps

#13
Also happening right now: "China mosque demolition sparks standoff in Ningxia" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-45140551

Although this isn't the Uighur population, the Han Muslim population also faces some level of discrimination.

Re: UN says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps

#14
post #2

> A U.N. human rights panel said on Friday that it had received many credible reports that 1 million ethnic Uighurs in China are held in what resembles a “massive internment camp that is shrouded in secrecy”. > Gay McDougall, a member of the U.N. Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, cited estimates that another 2 million Uighurs and Muslim minorities are forced into so-called “political camps for in…

It's not a single camp.. because a few months ago, there was a story about contracts for running these camps across the country: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/15/opinion/china-re-educatio...

Re: UN says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps

#15

Parable of the Leopard: Once upon a time there was a leopard who returned from hunting to find that his cub had been killed. He went and asked the baboon “Tell me who killed my cub for I must visit terrible vengeance upon them.“ The baboon replied, “It was the elephants”, whereupon the leopard exclaimed “Surely, you lie, it was the goats.” Immediately afterward, the leopard went out and slaughtered a great many goats…

It seems that by using this analogy that you're making a fairness argument that China should be criticized more, because they're worse, and Western governments shouldn't be criticized, because they're innocent.

But that doesn't make sense. In the US, for example, when injustice happens, it's possible to fight it in court. No guarantees, but it can be quite effective. Getting attention in the press is sometimes useful too.

Taking advantage of available opportunities to make things better is not "unfair". It's just smart.

Re: UN says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps

#16

Parable of the Leopard: Once upon a time there was a leopard who returned from hunting to find that his cub had been killed. He went and asked the baboon “Tell me who killed my cub for I must visit terrible vengeance upon them.“ The baboon replied, “It was the elephants”, whereupon the leopard exclaimed “Surely, you lie, it was the goats.” Immediately afterward, the leopard went out and slaughtered a great many goats…

Or, say, Saudi Arabia. See Canada.

Re: UN says it has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps

#18

Parable of the Leopard: Once upon a time there was a leopard who returned from hunting to find that his cub had been killed. He went and asked the baboon “Tell me who killed my cub for I must visit terrible vengeance upon them.“ The baboon replied, “It was the elephants”, whereupon the leopard exclaimed “Surely, you lie, it was the goats.” Immediately afterward, the leopard went out and slaughtered a great many goats…

As someone libertarian-leaning, what I find disturbing about all this - we all told ourselves that companies in various totalitarian regimes went along with the regime's line because they'd be "disappeared" if they didn't. Here in our country, it seems that murder, jail time, and mysterious "disappearances" are not required. Most companies will happily go along with any regime's censorship plans just to make a few more bucks, not risk losing their market position, or not be a target of a twitter outrage mob.

How are we going to maintain a free society if nobody is willing to make any effort at it?

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