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War Without End

nytimes.com

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Re: War Without End

#61

Post by pjmorris »

guelo wrote: post #19
antisthenes wrote: post #15

If you are a soldier and find other reasons to fight rather than for the person next to you, then I wonder if you're fit to fight at all. You know what I'll say? I won't say a goddamn word. Why? They won't understand. They won't understand why we do it. They won't understand that it's about the men next to you, and that's it. That's all it is.

Sorry but that makes no sense from a policy point of view.

Read up on how the WW2 US Army was recruited, trained, and sent into battle. To the degree possible, squads were kept together from boot camp to build up 'unit cohesion' based on sticking up for each other. Most people don't fight for abstract principles, they fight to stand up for their friends, and/or to not look bad in front of their friends. It's bad policy to ignore that.

Re: War Without End

#62

Post by javajosh »

The underlying problem is comfortable war. It's comfortable for us - we give up nothing, there is no draft, no extra tax, no rationing. Even the soldiers live in relative comfort at base, with air conditioning, plentiful food, computer games, etc.

We should choose, as a society, to make war uncomfortable for us. It is the moral choice. We should have a draft, which puts the children of the wealthy and powerful at risk. We should have extra taxes, and ideally there should be rationing.

Then see the popularity of diplomacy rise.

Re: War Without End

#63

Post by SuddsMcDuff »

antisthenes wrote: post #15

If you are a soldier and find other reasons to fight rather than for the person next to you, then I wonder if you're fit to fight at all. You know what I'll say? I won't say a goddamn word. Why? They won't understand. They won't understand why we do it. They won't understand that it's about the men next to you, and that's it. That's all it is.

I can well imagine that lofty ideals like defending democracy "for queen & country" quickly go out of the window when bullets starts whizzing past your head.

But what motivates people to sign up, go through months of training & travel to far off foreign lands to fight? Without those motivations, the desire to defend the 'person next to you' would only manifest when your homeland was under threat of invasion.

Re: War Without End

#64

Post by skrebbel »

eadmund wrote: post #35

I have a very simple proposal to insure success in any military campaign: just make all tours of duty accompanied tours, i.e. send families along with the servicemembers, from the highest ranks to the lowest, and also make deployment to a combat zone on the order of a decade or two, not a few months or a year. I guarantee that any general staff whose wives & children are in the affected area and who will be there for…

Isn't that a bit like saying that the Settlements brought peace to Israel/Palestine?

Re: War Without End

#65

Post by pavlov »

b1daly wrote: post #53

Even though the weird Qanon movement is delusional on the particulars, when it comes to pointing out the obvious betrayal of regular folk by cabals of elites milking the system for their benefit is strikingly on point.

[flagged]

Re: War Without End

#66

Post by skrebbel »

Typical NYTimes to underline all the poor dead & wounded American soldiers and not a single word about innocent Iraqi and Afghani citizens, let alone the insane wave of refugees across the globe that America's aggression has helped cause.

Re: War Without End

#67

Post by mmjaa »

skrebbel wrote: post #66

Typical NYTimes to underline all the poor dead & wounded American soldiers and not a single word about innocent Iraqi and Afghani citizens, let alone the insane wave of refugees across the globe that America's aggression has helped cause.

Americans are simply not interested in the victims of their wars. It runs counter to every iota of American culture, to acknowledge the failures of their warrior-classes, alas.

But, you should know, the article did mention the casualties, at least glibly. "Many more Afghani's have died than were lost in the 9/11 attacks", is the only context the author can find, to appeal to his readers.

Its a sad state of affairs when the worlds greatest nation is populated with its worst cowards. Americans should have a War Channel that shows them what their military-industrial-pharmaceutical masters are doing around the world, 24-hours a day. Only then would the honour and pride demanded of American servants of its military be placed in the proper context.

Re: War Without End

#68

Post by mmjaa »

pavlov wrote: post #65
b1daly wrote: post #53

Even though the weird Qanon movement is delusional on the particulars, when it comes to pointing out the obvious betrayal of regular folk by cabals of elites milking the system for their benefit is strikingly on point.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: War Without End

#69

Post by mmjaa »

eadmund wrote: post #35

I have a very simple proposal to insure success in any military campaign: just make all tours of duty accompanied tours, i.e. send families along with the servicemembers, from the highest ranks to the lowest, and also make deployment to a combat zone on the order of a decade or two, not a few months or a year. I guarantee that any general staff whose wives & children are in the affected area and who will be there for…

I've got a better idea: 24 Hour War Channel.

Every victim gets a time slot.

Re: War Without End

#70

Post by mmjaa »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #21
cryptonector wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The domino thing wasn't that crazy. China, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia. Then what? Philippines? Thailand? Of course, the right answer was that we couldn't take on all of those burdens, not even one, really, not for long. But in the aftermath of WWII, I think it's not surprising that this wasn't understood.

> But in the aftermath of WWII, I think it's not surprising that this wasn't understood. Then what's our excuse this time?

>Then what's our excuse this time?

There's money in them-thar hills (of Afghanistan). War money: your nation can't survive without it.

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