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Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

thehill.com

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Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#141

Post by partiallypro »

acdha wrote: post #96
partiallypro wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that most of these existed well before the internet and were just as widespread. Generally the people who post this stuff are the people already preconditioned to believe it. These people also have their views emboldened when they see it is banned...they view it as some conspiracy to hide the "truth." IMO, these bans against Alex Jones aren't going to have the good intended result they were meant to. If anything…

> Note that most of these existed well before the internet and were just as widespread. Do you have a citation for that? It seems unlikely that the Internet didn’t increase the reach for fringe views by making them available to everyone rather than just the few who requested conspiracy materials by mail.

Are you really suggesting that conspiracy theories such as JFK, Roswell, Area 51, Antivaccine/"mark of the beast," Moonlanding, Big Foot etc weren't already in popular culture before the internet was popularized? Because, in fact, many of them spread because there was no wide usage of the internet (Roswell, probably being the #1.) It helps create lore. Even X-Files, a show that I adore, was really pre-popularized internet era.

Think of Ruby Ridge, Waco, etc. Those conspiracy theories led to the Oklahoma City bombing. And they were widespread prior to the internet being a big thing. Think of the Turner Diaries which was big in the early 90s, there are too many examples to even list.

9/11 was maybe the first popular internet spread conspiracy, but I would make a strong argument that without the internet it may have been more widespread because there is less online debunks.

I don't know if you've ever argued with a conspiracy theorist but their minds were made up before any major theory was proposed. It's a natural distrust of authority.

Do I have hard data? No, and I am willing to be that it would be incredibly hard to measure that anyhow, but I do have tons of anecdotes and history to back up the claim that it's nothing new. It's human nature.

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#142

Post by chvid »

dragonwriter wrote: post #97
chvid wrote: post #38

Who are the organisations pushing for these bans? Are they completely anonymous?

Who said they are organizations? It to doesn't take much to see some content, do a little research to identify a responsible host, and file a ToS complaint.

Yeah. It just seems very coordinated. I would have thought had it been random individuals there would be a lot of chatter and cheers when a call for a ban succeeded. And some chatter on who to pick. But I could be wrong.

Just wondered if someone could put a face on who is pushing for this.

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#143

Post by NTDF9 »

komali2 wrote: post #79
lylecubed wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A common argument in philosophy is that bad ideas should occur in the open - where everyone may ridicule them. Not to get too far off topic, but is this actually true in practice in the real world? Scientific studies have shown that the idea that gets repeated the most often is the idea that "wins". A bad idea gets repeated and spread every time it gets criticized. If the idea proves more "credible" than the critic…

I would like to know this as well. Case in point, when I was a kindergarten teacher, kids wouldn't have a concept of race. I'd have white girls asking me if I could put their hair in braids like "the tan girls." But by 4th grade I'd be teaching about slavery, racism, etc, and the kids would be then learning about a concept that was utterly nonsensical to the non-racism-indoctrinated kids. So I'm wondering what would…

Man, I grew up in a third world country where race was a complete non-issue (unless your color made you stick out like a sore thumb, in which case, you'd be a celebrity, not get picked on).

Coming to the US is what made me encounter racism. American society really is broken from within when third world countries can get around this but America can't.

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#144

Post by sincerely »

lylecubed wrote: post #123
coldtea wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a valid argument though? Of course things should be judged on a case by case basis, and not on dogmatic one size fits all rules. Even courts take context into account for the same action (e.g. whether a murder was in cold blood or premeditated, whether someone stole because they were hungry or just greedy, etc). And, yes, "there is a time and place for stealing someone’s wallet", as well.

But it's equally illegal to kill anybody based on race, class, political belief or religious belief.

Is that true? If the murder is racially motivated and thus a hate crime, isn't the sentence longer?

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#145

Post by kevinmchugh »

MoveConstructor wrote: post #72

It's disconcerting to see how many tech and free speech people are clamoring for the censorship of dissenting opinion and are jubilant when it happens. Free speech has always been a very counter-intuitive process. Opinions that directly oppose yours or even your very person will rub you the wrong way, and to be intent on defending the right of your opponent to voice his opinion seems paradoxical, but we nevertheless…

The free speech absolutists would have been more convincing had they been as up-in-arms about the banning of ISIS or ISIS-affiliated accounts over the last several years. This happened by the hundreds-of-thousands.

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#146

Post by tptacek »

Having read the article but not knowing anything about the posts themselves, I think most of this thread misses the point.

Clearly Microsoft knew it was hosting Gab and what Gab was. There's a troll argument that suggests Gab is just "free speech twitter", but of course that's not the case: I've been screenshotting the front page for months, from a random anonymous account, and every time I've done it the front page was full of horrible Islamophobic, racist, and anti-Semitic crap. That and bot content.

My point here is: everybody knows that's what Gab is. Microsoft isn't pushing back on Gab's anti-Semitism --- without anti-Semitism, there is no Gab. They had specific harm reduction problems with a pair of posts, one of which, according to this article, was a call for violence directed towards Jewish people.

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#147

Post by NTDF9 »

makomk wrote: post #5

The posts in question are frankly pretty awful, but this does kind of put the lie to the idea that if you don't like FaceGoogleBook's censorship you can just set up your own website.

Would you be ok is an islamic terrorist group threatens the west using Microsoft's services?

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#148

Post by qop »

braythwayt wrote: post #82
Nadya wrote: post #31

A common argument in philosophy is that bad ideas should occur in the open - where everyone may ridicule them. When they are cast to the shadows they can grow, under everyone's noses, in private where only there are they allowed to exist. In private, these bad ideas cannot be challenged by others and people will be convinced to believe in them, with nobody challenging the idea as a genuinely terrible idea. It gives b…

That argument works well in relatively small social groups where people generally can be relied upon to act in good faith, and where there are social disincentives to clinging to bad ideas after they have been refuted. When you have a small group with social bonds, you don't have to worry about a bad actor constantly repeating their already-refuted arguments to people who haven't heard the refutation. But when you ha…

HN is well into the territory of censoring, rather than moderation. Let's be real here.

Ever since dang, it's been a free fall.

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#149

Post by minimaxir »

tptacek wrote: post #146

Having read the article but not knowing anything about the posts themselves, I think most of this thread misses the point. Clearly Microsoft knew it was hosting Gab and what Gab was. There's a troll argument that suggests Gab is just "free speech twitter", but of course that's not the case: I've been screenshotting the front page for months, from a random anonymous account, and every time I've done it the front page…

> I've been screenshotting the front page for months

Out of curiosity, why?

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#150

Post by tptacek »

minimaxir wrote: post #149
tptacek wrote: post #146

Having read the article but not knowing anything about the posts themselves, I think most of this thread misses the point. Clearly Microsoft knew it was hosting Gab and what Gab was. There's a troll argument that suggests Gab is just "free speech twitter", but of course that's not the case: I've been screenshotting the front page for months, from a random anonymous account, and every time I've done it the front page…

> I've been screenshotting the front page for months Out of curiosity, why?

I honestly don't know why. Something just made me think I was going to want data about it someday.
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