Wanted: ‘Lost Einsteins.’ Please Apply • Hacker News Board

Re: Wanted: ‘Lost Einsteins.’ Please Apply

#81

Post by dnautics » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 9:26 PM UTC

danicgross wrote: post #17

telospolis wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We expect a fraction of Pioneers to start companies. In exchange for the investment and benefits below, Pioneer will retain 3% of any company you found over the next eight years. Pioneer will also have the option of investing an additional $20,000 for 5% in any of those companies. These conditions apply if you already have an incorporated company." yeah, as an outsider looking for entry into startup - it just doesn'…

If you have the opportunity to join other programs, go for it! Our hope is that this model enables us to reach the billions of people that are outside the network of Silicon Valley. They might not even be sure if they have a "company". They just want support on whatever project they're pursuing. We're hoping that becoming a Pioneer vastly increases the odds that you turn your "shower-thought" into something real, eve…

> "shower-thought"

It strikes me that the lack of conviction in the people that the Pioneer fund itself is selecting (as evidenced by such a low amount of money for such a high percentage, and lock-in) means that all that they will get is going to be half-baked shower thoughts. Ultimately, you get what you pay for.

Re: Wanted: ‘Lost Einsteins.’ Please Apply

#82

Post by s-shellfish » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 9:33 PM UTC

yc-kraln wrote: post #16

Looks good; how do you handle the fact that most 'lost einsteins' are working a crushing 9-5 and don't have the time or capacity to conceptualize (let alone work on) their passion projects?

Maybe just trying to attract a certain type of person who wants to get out of a job they find crushing.

A job can be seen as crushing or a team effort. Einstein wasn't an island.

Re: Wanted: ‘Lost Einsteins.’ Please Apply

#83

Post by pastor_elm » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 9:35 PM UTC

>Talented people suffer — one study called them “lost Einsteins” — but so does the economy from the loss of ideas and wealth they could have produced.

The irony is that Einstein himself was 'lost,' having failed to find a teaching post and forced to work in a patent office. And many contend it was only because he had the time and freedom to contemplate on his own that we able to put forth such revolutionary ideas. If only he could have been indebted to some VC firm instead. He could have made them millions!

Re: Wanted: ‘Lost Einsteins.’ Please Apply

#84

Post by Alex3917 » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 9:35 PM UTC

danicgross wrote: post #45

z0a wrote: post #41

This just looks like another VC firm disguised as something else: 1) 3% equity + 5% for an additional 20k of any company you found for the next 8 years 2) “The candidates will vote on each other’s projects, points will be awarded and there will be leader board. Subject experts will also vote, with their votes counting somewhat more than the candidates.” I think what we actually need are less gatekeepers and instead w…

> This just looks like another VC firm I don't think VC firms fund poets or musicians :) > communities that reward intellectual curiosity, encouraging the cultivation of ideas and potential businesses that provide value. I agree! That's exactly what's we're trying to do. I think most people we fund will never start companies. I hope they'll become great researchers, civic activists or artists. For the fraction that d…

> I don't think VC firms fund poets or musicians :)

Most mainstream musicians are funded by VCs. I think they call them something else in the industry, but the economic model is similar.

Re: Wanted: ‘Lost Einsteins.’ Please Apply

#85

Post by starlingforge » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 9:41 PM UTC

opportune wrote: post #15

I really like the idea behind this, but I take issue with the fact that if someone does start a company, Pioneer will take 3% with the option of buying 5% more of the company for $20,000. That seems pretty unfair. I would be inclined to participate if this term didn't exist, or if it were either more financially generous or took less equity. But I wouldn't want to develop any idea through Pioneer if any future idea (…

I am glad I read the comments first, the 8 years clause is not at all obvious at first and that is a huge deal. Even if you are a starving genius in Africa with access to the internet, that hardly seems lucrative assuming you will go on from your first effort (with just $5k to run on you must really be a genius). Then this vulture fund takes and takes and takes. This reeks of exploitation.

Re: Wanted: ‘Lost Einsteins.’ Please Apply

#86

Post by starlingforge » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 9:46 PM UTC

PascLeRasc wrote: post #22

GuiA wrote: post #10

Brian Eno: "I was an art student and, like all art students, I was encouraged to believe that there were a few great figures like Picasso and Kandinsky, Rembrandt and Giotto and so on who sort-of appeared out of nowhere and produced artistic revolution. As I looked at art more and more, I discovered that that wasn’t really a true picture. What really happened was that there was sometimes very fertile scenes involving…

We desperately need universal basic income.

Yeah this is what I am thinking reading this. This raw deal would look unattractive to any intelligent person if a UBI was in place to incubate people at the stage this project proposes to attract them.

Re: Wanted: ‘Lost Einsteins.’ Please Apply

#87

Post by wolfgke » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 9:53 PM UTC

gt_ wrote: post #61

rndmwlk wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://pioneer.app/ Looks like it's more of a popularity contest than anything else.

Right. The application process appears to openly prioritize marketing skills, which puts it in serious conflict with the stated goal.

> Right. The application process appears to openly prioritize marketing skills, which puts it in serious conflict with the stated goal.

Exactly. To quote [1]:

"The world is full of extraordinarily creative people that are struggling to fit in.".

If the candidate is struggling to fit in, he/she is probably not "the popular kid" or a highly successful self-marketer.

Another quote from [1]:

"Our goal is to build a decentralized network of young, creative and exceptionally motivated outsiders who don’t fit in to the traditional system.".

I personally would claim that such self-marketing is exactly what the "traditional system" is (among other things) strongly about. So making it a popularity contest is opposed to the self-stated/self-imposed goals.

[1] https://pioneer.app/

Re: Wanted: ‘Lost Einsteins.’ Please Apply

#88

Post by glup » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 9:56 PM UTC

medius wrote: post #79

This may have some use, but the use of "Lost Einsteins" is so strange to me. I went to read the article thinking they will help educate unprivileged population, improve accessibility of knowledge, etc. But this is just another variation of a startup accelerator. Can even real Einstein find this useful? How long can they support him while he works on his theories with no company/product to show? Do they have a system…

Similar sentiments here. This is a venture fund that sees individuals, rather than companies, as ventures. Not sure if that's a good idea, my gut feeling is that it isn't. But in any case it isn't finding "lost Einsteins" for society, it's finding returns for capital.

Re: Wanted: ‘Lost Einsteins.’ Please Apply

#89

Post by wolfgke » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 9:59 PM UTC

tpfour wrote: post #43

adventured wrote: post #38

Everyone can find 15-20 hours per week. It's a matter of priorities and choices. A 9-5 job is going to take up 50-60 hours per week, including prep time and travel (possibly less or more in some scenarios). 50 hours for sleep. That leaves a very solid 50-60 hours per week, that is left to allocation by priority (some will go to food, life maintenance, etc. - that all has a blend of choice and priority to it). How can…

> Everyone can find 15-20 hours per week. It's a matter of priorities and choices. Do you have children?

> Do you have children?

So you have decided into what to invest the 15-20 hours. I can find more interesting hobbies for my time.

Re: Wanted: ‘Lost Einsteins.’ Please Apply

#90

Post by frakkingcylons » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 10:03 PM UTC

Interesting idea, I like that Pioneer is looking for more than just startups (or tech in general). Obviously the $5k grant is too small to make this appealing for people in the U.S. who need money to pursue their ideas. BUT, of course, there's the entire rest of the world, where $5k can be stretched quite far.

One hang up - is it necessary to say that Pioneer seeks "young" people? Does Pioneer have a preference for young people when determining who deserves an offer?