Chemists discover how blue light speeds blindness • Hacker News Board

Re: Chemists discover how blue light speeds blindness

#151

Post by klodolph » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 6:12 PM UTC

rconti wrote: post #45

_nkoa wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of the way your eyes work. If it is bright, your pupil will be shrunk, to not be blinded by the luminosity. When it is dark, your pupil will be opened wide up. It is this principle that camera apertures are based on. Now if you have your pupil wide open in a completely dark environment and put a 100% brightness screen at ~10cm of your eyes, what do you expect will happen ? Our eyes are made for nature, that m…

Interesting; when I got 2 new pair of eyeglasses last month, again I fell for the usual "buy all the coatings" spiel. I didn't much understand what they were, but I was told one causes refractions that bother some people. I absolutely notice a blue refraction from car headlights when driving at night. I keep thinking I'm seeing a police light from somewhere. It's fine, just interesting. Well, after looking at a few l…

What makes f.lux inaccurate? Color perception is relative and if you are in a dark room, your eyes should adjust to different white points naturally. This is the same thing that makes it so a white piece of paper looks white no matter whether you are inside or outside, even though the actual light reflected from the paper has a radically different spectrum in each case.

Re: Chemists discover how blue light speeds blindness

#152

Post by erikbye » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

taneq wrote: post #150

herf wrote: post #136

f.lux author here, still slogging through the article. It is hard to understand the light levels used because they use "power" (uW, mW) from a laser, and not "irradiance" (uW/cm^2 or mW/cm^2), so which area they have concentrated that light over is hard to understand. All I can see is it is from a laser, so the irradiance could be extremely high. The human lens filters most light at the peak of the given spectrum for…

Hijacking this for a moment to say thanks for f.lux :) I've been running it for years and it's one of those things where you don't really notice the effect until you turn it off and then EGADS MY EYES.

Windows 10 has this built-in, so does macOS.

Re: Chemists discover how blue light speeds blindness

#153

Post by beager » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

mikeleeorg wrote: post #92

For the f.lux Mac users here, do you prefer that to Mac's Night Shift? I just found this article, which details why f.lux is better than Night Shift. But it's written by f.lux, so it's a bit biased. https://9to5mac.com/2017/03/28/flux-developer-says-apples-ne... I'm guessing both are better than nothing, but is one actually better than the other?

I prefer f.lux, with the exception of fullscreen video, specifically YouTube on Chrome, where certain colors "break through" the filtering and appear bright white. Not sure how it works, but it's the only thing Night Shift seems to do better. If f.lux fixed it I'd be back in a heartbeat

Re: Chemists discover how blue light speeds blindness

#154

Post by hestipod » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

walterbell wrote: post #137

hestipod wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I updated the post as I knew I would leave some things out as I am a mental wreck and this is long and complicated. I don't wear glasses. I have monovision from Lasik done 20 years ago and am starting to have presbyopia in the distance eye but it doesn't cause issues with CCFL displays or reading or anything else. I just have aapprox 3" window 10-12" from my face where neither eye is focusing well but displays…

Can you be more specific about "severe eyestrain"? E.g. if there is pain, where? Eyes dry, red? Difficulty focusing? Peripheral vision? Have you had an eye exam when the strain is present? When the strain is present, what happens if you switch to reading paper? Or switch to distance vision, e.g. looking out the window? How long does it take to recover from the strain when reading or looking into the distance?

The severe issue for the last 5-6 months since trying to use LED panels has been a tingling/tightness sensation around cheeks/nose that spreads to back of head/neck/trapezius turning into pain/ache. If you clench your eyes/face and lean forward you can feel the neck/upper back tighten too and it's all that area which makes me think something is triggering eye muscles to the degree they are making me tense everything else, but I have had lots of "intuition" about this that was never correct.

Eyes have always been dry since lasik, esp when living in forced air homes, but drops and blinking don't help this. No redness that stood out to me.No peripheral vision issues. No color distortions/double vision/ weird visual stuff but mild floaters I have had for 20-25 years. It can trigger anywhere from seconds to several minutes depending on the display. I have not had an exam when it's present. No insurance and scheduling/access is not quick.

Switching to any reading/distance but the LED displays soothes it with time and I feel no symptoms reading on paper. If its flared badly and other pain/stress/tension is high it can take some hours or a night's sleep to recover. On a good day with only a few min of strain induced, an hour outside is enough. Font size, antialiasing, resolution, different distros, drivers never mattered...even tried an all AMD laptop as some think intel drivers are the culprit but it was worse than most. The old display is supposedly the worst of all specs...low res/glossy/TN/CCFL/ has PWM and not great color gamut etc. Running Xubuntu on it, but that same distro and all others hurt on the LED laptops.

Re: Chemists discover how blue light speeds blindness

#155

Post by chroem- » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

It's more than a little amusing to see this at the top of HN only a few days after getting attacked for posting my personal experience with blue light and retinal degeneration.

Re: Chemists discover how blue light speeds blindness

#156

Post by wpasc » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

herf wrote: post #136

f.lux author here, still slogging through the article. It is hard to understand the light levels used because they use "power" (uW, mW) from a laser, and not "irradiance" (uW/cm^2 or mW/cm^2), so which area they have concentrated that light over is hard to understand. All I can see is it is from a laser, so the irradiance could be extremely high. The human lens filters most light at the peak of the given spectrum for…

Thank you for your input, but I mostly want to thank you for f.lux. It has been one of my favorite things for a long time. It's silly how long it's taken companies to provide a native blue light filter and your product just kicks ass.

If you guys ever wanted to figure out your app on a smart TV (or apple TV), I know there'd be a lot of thankful people!

Also, I'd love to contribute to the ongoing dev of f.lux (I don't think I've had to pay for it?) How might I?

Re: Chemists discover how blue light speeds blindness

#157

Post by wpasc » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 6:16 PM UTC

erikbye wrote: post #152

taneq wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hijacking this for a moment to say thanks for f.lux :) I've been running it for years and it's one of those things where you don't really notice the effect until you turn it off and then EGADS MY EYES.

Windows 10 has this built-in, so does macOS.

I wonder from whom they took the idea? f.lux has been around for YEARS (2009)

Re: Chemists discover how blue light speeds blindness

#158

Post by mrguyorama » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

jt2190 wrote: post #113

rconti wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting; when I got 2 new pair of eyeglasses last month, again I fell for the usual "buy all the coatings" spiel. I didn't much understand what they were, but I was told one causes refractions that bother some people. I absolutely notice a blue refraction from car headlights when driving at night. I keep thinking I'm seeing a police light from somewhere. It's fine, just interesting. Well, after looking at a few l…

> I absolutely notice a blue refraction from car headlights when driving at night. I think some ultra-bright headlights are actually slightly blue.

Especially with the move to LED headlights, car lights have gotten significantly "colder" in color temperature

Re: Chemists discover how blue light speeds blindness

#159

Post by benrbray » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

erikbye wrote: post #152

taneq wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hijacking this for a moment to say thanks for f.lux :) I've been running it for years and it's one of those things where you don't really notice the effect until you turn it off and then EGADS MY EYES.

Windows 10 has this built-in, so does macOS.

These are relatively new features, and they arguably wouldn't have been added if not for the popularity of flux ;)

Re: Chemists discover how blue light speeds blindness

#160

Post by derefr » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

niceperson wrote: post #116

derefr wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't develop myopia or hyperopia after your eyes/skull/orbital muscles are done growing. So this suggestion probably applies only to adults. Keep in mind that this is age-related macular degeneration. Your photoreceptor cells are protected by the α-tocopherol until "a person's 50s or 60s." You wouldn't need any prophylactic interventions until then.

>You can't develop myopia or hyperopia after your eyes/skull/orbital muscles are done growing. Do you have a source for that? Would the inverse also be true?

I don't know about a source—a medical textbook? Those conditions are explicitly caused by the eye being squished out of the "proper" shape for focusing light by the way the skull and extraocular muscles end up developing.

I suppose you could develop myopia later in life as a result of inflammation of the extraocular muscles (orbital myositis), but this would be 1. temporary, and 2. not treated as its own disease, but rather as a symptom.