Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021 • Hacker News Board

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#151

Post by bluGill » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 2:53 PM UTC

KallDrexx wrote: post #145

ptero wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A deeply red/Republican and relatively low-density state might seem like a strange place to find a functional public transit system. I do not see it this way. Communities with shared values (republican or democratic), usually find it easier to agree on and build public services that they find useful. Getting efficient, inexpensive transport that does not cost too much to the state is pretty easy to justify. By the…

> By the same token, most Republicans know that they will eventually get old, likely sick and finally die; thus they are not opposed to public healthcare as long as it is efficient and does not overburden public finances. However, they think (with some justification given past national federal projects) that if the US Federal government designs such a system it will be an inefficient and super costly monster panderin…

If my town does something stupid I can move to the next town with little downside to my life (other than the cost of the move) - I can keep my existing friends. If my county does something stupid I can move, but the costs are higher. Moving states is higher cost, and countries is even higher (might even be impossible)

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#152

Post by specialist » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 3:00 PM UTC

mmanfrin wrote: post #9

Mbioguy wrote: post #6

A deeply red/Republican and relatively low-density state might seem like a strange place to find a functional public transit system. Utah is an interesting place. The geography of the Wasatch Front lends itself to public transit in ways that less geographically-constrained places do not. The region is mostly a north-south corridor, with occasional off-shoots to the side, which is how the transit network has developed…

I thing a larger factor is the Mormon Church/Mormon population. Utah has some strangely progressive economic policies like housing-first solutions to homelessness. Utah is a red state for sure, especially when it comes to social policies, but has the 'community' orientation that another commenter mentioned that public transit falls neatly in to.

Homogeneity makes governance (consensus) a lot easier.

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#153

Post by adventured » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 3:02 PM UTC

Mbioguy wrote: post #6

A deeply red/Republican and relatively low-density state might seem like a strange place to find a functional public transit system. Utah is an interesting place. The geography of the Wasatch Front lends itself to public transit in ways that less geographically-constrained places do not. The region is mostly a north-south corridor, with occasional off-shoots to the side, which is how the transit network has developed…

> A deeply red/Republican and relatively low-density state might seem like a strange place to find a functional public transit system.

To add to the list, Texas is going to be the first state in the US to have a proper high-speed rail system, and it's actually going to be very affordable to build.

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#154

Post by thedevil » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 3:14 PM UTC

saosebastiao wrote: post #143

thousandautumns wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won’t disagree that Mormons still have a ways to go regarding relations with the LGBT community, but if you have follow the Mormon church at all you’ve seen lots of progress in the last 10 years which continues to be made. As for the suicide rate, you are making very careless and dangerous assumptions. Yes, it’s higher than most other areas. The reason for why is still very much unknown, and could be attributed in…

Handwavy dismissals from Mormons about the high suicide rate all have one thing in common: they may explain higher than average baselibe levels, but they don't explain the growth. It is certainly plausible, and as empirical understandings improve, Mormonism is certainly being honed in on as a significant factor. https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/10798286

From the same publication, teen suicide rates are rising across the US:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/suicide-rates-teen-girl...

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#155

Post by saosebastiao » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 3:26 PM UTC

thedevil wrote: post #154

saosebastiao wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Handwavy dismissals from Mormons about the high suicide rate all have one thing in common: they may explain higher than average baselibe levels, but they don't explain the growth. It is certainly plausible, and as empirical understandings improve, Mormonism is certainly being honed in on as a significant factor. https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/10798286

From the same publication, teen suicide rates are rising across the US: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/suicide-rates-teen-girl...

And while the rate of child and teen suicide has risen by 23.5 percent nationally during the years covered by the study, it "more than doubled" (a 136 percent rise) in Utah, according to researchers from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

https://health.usnews.com/health-care/articles/2018-03-22/cd...

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#156

Post by joeblas » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 3:29 PM UTC

rsweeney21 wrote: post #25

dba7dba wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing with LDS is that it's more of an organization with a strong (aka oppressive? or too powerful) leadership at top. Every adult has to go on a 'mission' for a full year? On the flip side, there is no such distinct leadership/requirements in most other Christian organizations. Pretty much anyone call self a Christian. Maybe Catholics are similar to LDS but I'm not too familiar with them.

Missions are 2 years for men, 1.5 years for women. It's optional for both men and women, but men are expected to go. I went on a mission to Peru for 2 years. It was amazing, I have no regrets, but I wouldn't do it again. It was incredibly hard. In contrast, I've started two modestly successful companies (one bootstrapped, one backed by $16M in VC money) and I'm working on starting my third. Startups are grueling, but…

I too went on a 2 year mission in Ohio and I second the statement that it was incredibly hard but totally worth it.

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#157

Post by bobthepanda » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 3:38 PM UTC

michaelt wrote: post #133

bobthepanda wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYC's implementation is terrible because no other place with proof of payment stops the entire vehicle to check fares. The issue with free is that free transit tends to create a negative spiral where some walkers and bikers will switch to transit because it's free, so services have to be improved to deal with the crowding, which makes transit more appealing to bikers and walkers, which increases overcrowding, and so…

The issue with free is that free transit tends to create a negative spiral where some walkers and bikers will switch to transit because it's free, so services have to be improved to deal with the crowding, which makes transit more appealing to bikers and walkers Woudn't the same thing apply to drivers?

It does, which is why highway expansions generally fill up a few years after opening. http://cityobservatory.org/reducing-congestion-katy-didnt/

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#158

Post by bobthepanda » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 3:39 PM UTC

st26 wrote: post #141

bobthepanda wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free public transport is a can of worms; in general, free tends to attract walkers and bikers but not drivers, since price is not really how a car competes with public transport. And attracting walkers and bikers would probably be a negative. There's also a negative cycle where some walkers and bikers will switch because the free service is good enough, so the services become overcrowded, so more service is provided…

"Free" is really handy for keeping the service fast & on time though. Not required to be sure, but each rider digging for change takes time. My local bus rapid transit is nominally not-free, but tickets are not checked. It's impressive how fast it is, and that is part of why.

You can effectively achieve most of that with just tap cards and all-door boarding.

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#159

Post by thedevil » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 3:40 PM UTC

saosebastiao wrote: post #155

thedevil wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the same publication, teen suicide rates are rising across the US: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/suicide-rates-teen-girl...

And while the rate of child and teen suicide has risen by 23.5 percent nationally during the years covered by the study, it "more than doubled" (a 136 percent rise) in Utah, according to researchers from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. https://health.usnews.com/health-care/articles/2018-03-22/cd...

So some possible hypotheses (in what I would consider most to least plausible):

1) Whatever causes the higher overall rates in Utah (altitude and/or other variables) that interacts in a non-linear way with whatever is causing the national increase.

2) Whatever factor that is driving the national increase is more influential in Utah for whatever reason. (e.g. maybe social networks are more harmful to more-judgmental Mormon communities)

3) There is some recent change in Mormon culture that has driven a change in teen suicide rates.

4) Mormon culture has caused a change in suicide rates despite not changing.

Do you have any support that would make (3) or (4) sound more reasonable? Or do you have another hypothesis?

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#160

Post by dahdum » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 3:47 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #136

Osiris wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been an active member my whole life (38) and I've never even heard of "space doctrine". I looked it up and as far as I can tell, there are some theories by members of the Church but nothing from any current or former members of the Quorum of the Twelve or First Presidency, which is required for something to really be considered canon. Just because some member of the Church believes or says something doesn't make…

Just because some member of the Church believes or says something doesn't make it doctrine. This is a problem for most religions these days. Some random person says something is part of their religion, and everyone on the internet and the media believe it. It's like whenever some Catholic priest in some backwater says something that is not in line with Catholic teaching, the news picks up on it as if it came out of t…

Islam has this same problem, I've seen countless articles over the years about some person or group issuing ridiculous fatwas that are taken seriously.