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A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

bloomberg.com

71–80 of 162 posts

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#71
post #70

The article, strangely, leaves out the name of the project it's reporting on. It's OpenAPS, http://openaps.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ . I use it and have worked on the code. It's a massive health and quality of life improvement over anything that exists which is FDA approved. The core problem is that the FDA-approved devices are optimized not for getting the best result, but for ensuring the manufacturer can't be blam…

Hi- I used to work in regulated pharma and I want to be clear: " The core problem is that the FDA-approved devices are optimized not for getting the best result, but for ensuring the manufacturer can't be blamed if something goes wrong" is a misleading statement. The reason everything is regulated is that sometimes things do go wrong, and it's necessary to have root cause attribution so the problem can be remedied an…

Somehow I can't help but read you've smuggled endorsement for: It's ok if the product is more dangerous when bundled with the benefit that we can blame it on some organization.

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#72
post #30
post #18

A continuous glucose monitor (CGM) uses a very thin gauge wire to sense interstitial fluid as a proxy for blood sugar. My kids have tried Dexcom G4 CGMs a couple years ago. The G4 was never approved to dose insulin directly off the CGM reported value, we would confirm with a finger prick before dosing a correction. The G4 also required “calibration” where you would type in the reading from a finger stick and it would…

Does the G6 interface with OmniPod at all or do you just use it like a continuous finger-prick test? My youngest (now nearly 16 years old) was diagnosed about two years ago. She's currently on Medtronic's closed loop system (860), but honestly it's so finicky I'm starting to look at switching systems. My daughter is basically at the point of burnout and sees the whole thing as nothing more than a major annoyance. She…

Yes, the OmniPod has no direct connection to the Dexcom CGM, I have to observe BG moving up and enter the number into the OmniPod for it to calculate a correction dose. So, for example, overnight this could still mean programming multiple corrections throughout the night after a slow-carb hard-to-dose meal.

For the last year we’ve been going to Clara Barton camp which is for kids with T1D. Most of the counselors are also living with T1D and one night they did a panel with several of them and a room full of parents.

We got to hear some very important perspectives, but one thing we consistently heard is that every kid with T1D will go through these burn out periods.

While of course it’s a health concern and we never want to see those high numbers, there will be time periods where blood sugar control slips and the A1Cs head up and it’s a totally legitimate reaction as a teenager to be seeking some space from this condition which just never lets up and insists on setting us apart from our peers multiple times throughout the day.

Just like us software engineers will hit a wall and “burn out” from pushing too hard for too long, I think it’s not possible for the human brain, certainly an adolescent brain, to handle the constant never-ending burden of carb counting, dosing, checking, correcting, day in and out.

Switching devices might help, but of course is also a massive investment in time and energy to come up to speed on a new system, nevermind the financial side of it.

One thing we heard from several of the counselors was that in those periods of burn-out, they didn’t need their parents to “fix” anything and often rushing in to try to make changes to fix it ended up counterproductive because it’s ultimately not something that can be fixed but just be overcome. They didn’t need to hear how important it was, they knew that better than we as parents even. Burn-out is a real thing that they are entitled to do. Listen, let them vent, let them cry, let them cheat even if it causes a temporary high, not because that’s the lifestyle you want to encourage but because somehow you have to find these moments to get space and control and feel like it’s not the T1D dictating everything all the time.

Even with OmniPod which is a neat little device, there are weeks when one child will just say, “You know what, I just really don’t want a pod on this week” and we pull out the Lantus from the back of the fridge and do injections for a few days, and yeah BG control goes to shit, and then we go back to the pods with renewed appreciation for the convenience, yes, and the trade-offs.

The Dexcom CGM is cloud connected, and of course you configure which devices can see your BG and also what times of day it’s shared. So we also heard some interesting and at times hilarious stories about the power struggles of college kids sharing (and not sharing) their BG numbers with their parents.

Most importantly just know burn-out is universal and inevitable and also will pass.

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#73
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi- I used to work in regulated pharma and I want to be clear: " The core problem is that the FDA-approved devices are optimized not for getting the best result, but for ensuring the manufacturer can't be blamed if something goes wrong" is a misleading statement. The reason everything is regulated is that sometimes things do go wrong, and it's necessary to have root cause attribution so the problem can be remedied an…

Somehow I can't help but read you've smuggled endorsement for: It's ok if the product is more dangerous when bundled with the benefit that we can blame it on some organization.

The more generous interpretation is: We value life and try to reduce the risk of severe damage when making drugs. And regulatory bodies exist to combat the incentive to just ship whatever works without adequate regard for what could go wrong

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#76
post #57
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, my general impression is that doctors live under this illusion that patients will somehow succeed in making lifestyle changes that will cause the disease to go into regression or disappear altogether. Well in the last 3 months, I DID learn new eating habits, lost 15 kilos and had my meds cut from 6.5 tablets per day to 0.5 tablets a day working with a doctor and having good control on blood sugar. The big AHA…

My mom has diabetes. I am interested in knowing what diet changes did you make. Only asking as it would be helpful for others.

Basic principle is to try to build new habits of how we eat gradually changing only 1 or 2 things every week and re-enforcing what works/cutting what doesn't. Typical diets (in my community) are 70 percent carbs, 30 percent veggies. We started by basically reversing this ratio. We also completely eliminated sugar & processed carbs (ie. flour - basically no breads & only whole grains) - but apart from this, I didn't fundamentally change what I ate. Then we progressively started reducing eating window over 10-12 weeks to < 6 hours in a day and started adding 2/3 day fasts. However, there are many routes & it works best if customized to individual.

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#77
post #70

The article, strangely, leaves out the name of the project it's reporting on. It's OpenAPS, http://openaps.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ . I use it and have worked on the code. It's a massive health and quality of life improvement over anything that exists which is FDA approved. The core problem is that the FDA-approved devices are optimized not for getting the best result, but for ensuring the manufacturer can't be blam…

Hi- I used to work in regulated pharma and I want to be clear: " The core problem is that the FDA-approved devices are optimized not for getting the best result, but for ensuring the manufacturer can't be blamed if something goes wrong" is a misleading statement. The reason everything is regulated is that sometimes things do go wrong, and it's necessary to have root cause attribution so the problem can be remedied an…

The problem is that although regulation may be necessary, the regulators incentives are different than the users. Regulators are rewarded for being overly conservative. If they are making an assessment best on the riskiness of a device versus the benefits to its users, they should say what their criteria are.

Different users are willing to accept different amounts of risk for a given quality of life improvement. Besides differing between users, the tradeoff is almost certainly in favor of accepting more risk than a regulator would approve.

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#78
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi- I used to work in regulated pharma and I want to be clear: " The core problem is that the FDA-approved devices are optimized not for getting the best result, but for ensuring the manufacturer can't be blamed if something goes wrong" is a misleading statement. The reason everything is regulated is that sometimes things do go wrong, and it's necessary to have root cause attribution so the problem can be remedied an…

Somehow I can't help but read you've smuggled endorsement for: It's ok if the product is more dangerous when bundled with the benefit that we can blame it on some organization.

And what do you suggest we do when an open-source "biohack" results in something like this ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide

Note the mistake made, and just how subtle it was. During testing a somewhat more ad-hoc process was used to produce the drug that did not result in the bad isomere, and then it was sold with multiple isomeres in the actual drug. Regulators at the time thought that isomeres did not matter and it took years for the effects to become clear. Of course regulators did not test for things they didn't know about. Neither did the companies (not just one). Crucially the drug was NOT tested for the effect on pregnancies (and was therefore not to be taken by pregnant women, like many drugs and even some non-drug products like famously alcohol).

Furthermore: there is at least some amount of "guilt" on the part of some of the mothers: the medicine was NOT approved for use during pregnancy, and stated this.

Result: >10.000 crippled children.

Where is the guilt to be placed for this incident ? I would argue that the primary guilt is with the regulator (government) and a small amount with (most of) the mothers for taking unapproved medicine, with the rest of the mothers following doctors' prescriptions (which of course means those doctors prescribed unapproved medicine). Needless to say, the company was blamed, and forced to pay (essentially in trade for not going to prison). The German government denied any responsibility, and several other governments (famously Spain) went further: they denied anything had happened at all.

So let's say there is a timing bug in this "open source pancreas", and it starts pumping insulin into the patients bodies without cause, say at the unix epoch transition. I would guess that at least half of them won't survive.

What happens next ? Given the Thalomide incident we can make an educated guess: whatever the law says, and despite patients "accepting the risk", even when the patients explicitly make mistakes in the treatment, you can bet the government will go after whoever they can arrest, and force them to pay millions of euros, or throw them in jail for the rest of their life.

People cannot be trusted to accept responsibility for the result of picking their own treatments, even when fully informed about the risks.

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#79

So some people are concerned that their cars have an internet connection and others connect their bodies to it (via the smartphone) and at the same time, both have good reasons to do so :-D Sometimes it is a strange world we are living in. While I admire open source and DIY solutions in general, they often lack the quality assurance a company specialized in medical equippment is used to. So I hope that soon there wil…

You want the quality assurance, yet you don't think that it is acceptable to pay more than 4x the cost of parts. How do you expect that these tests (which are insanely expensive and take decades to run in some cases) will be paid for?

Re: A $250 Biohack That’s Revolutionizing Life with Diabetes

#80

The article, strangely, leaves out the name of the project it's reporting on. It's OpenAPS, http://openaps.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ . I use it and have worked on the code. It's a massive health and quality of life improvement over anything that exists which is FDA approved. The core problem is that the FDA-approved devices are optimized not for getting the best result, but for ensuring the manufacturer can't be blam…

You're sort of skipping over the bit where a bug in the software (or a hardware issue) kills the user. That's the crux of "being blamed" and regulation.

You might say in response it will "almost never" happen, but when it happens to your loved one it most certainly matters a lot.

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