Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of guilt or threat • Hacker News Board

Re: Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of guilt or threat

#181

Post by nojvek » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 12:40 AM UTC

jillesvangurp wrote: post #124

The US never abolished slavery, it just replaced it with prison labor and an endless supply of poor people that are fed into it on all sorts of minor offenses that would in most countries not result in a conviction. I know of no other countries that lock up this large a percentage of their population and then still manages to rival major war zones in terms of gun deaths per capita. It's offensive how ridiculously ine…

Yep, US has the highest rate of incarceration compared to any other country. It's kind of insane that 1 in every 1000 people is in jail/prison. Not only is it a huge cost to the government maintaining that many prisoners, but it's also a huge drain to the economy to have that many humans contained within 4 walls. Some of them even spending so much time in solitude that they'd rather commit suicide and end their lives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_ra...

We have a long way to go as humanity before we can call ourselves an advanced civilization that cares for every being on the planet and the planet itself in a sustainable way.

Re: Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of guilt or threat

#182

Post by cameldrv » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 1:30 AM UTC

hvidgaard wrote: post #43

thechao wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the situation as described. I do feel that many Americans (including myself) would be happier without intent: the imprisonment of a free person is a fundamental violation of constitutional rights and, regardless of intent, is a wrong, which should lead to compensation.

That would be a fair take on it. If you wrongfully imprison anyone, they get compensation. If all evidence points to them, but they was found not guilty, then they were wrongfully imprisoned and the intent and "why" doesn't really matter to that person.

Ok but wrongfully imprisoned by what standard? To get an indictment, they already had to show probable cause to a grand jury. A not guilty verdict does not mean innocence, and by the civil preponderance of evidence standard, they would already be liable.

Re: Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of guilt or threat

#183

Post by hvidgaard » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 9:54 AM UTC

cameldrv wrote: post #182

hvidgaard wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a fair take on it. If you wrongfully imprison anyone, they get compensation. If all evidence points to them, but they was found not guilty, then they were wrongfully imprisoned and the intent and "why" doesn't really matter to that person.

Ok but wrongfully imprisoned by what standard? To get an indictment, they already had to show probable cause to a grand jury. A not guilty verdict does not mean innocence, and by the civil preponderance of evidence standard, they would already be liable.

Any detention lasting longer than x minutes.

Re: Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of guilt or threat

#184

Post by dang » Sat, Aug 11, 2018, 5:26 AM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #104

cubano wrote: post #87

In my experience by far the worse part of the totally racist and unfair US bail system is the fact that... ... if you can't bail out, you don't get any REAL credit for the time you have spent locked up when you finally go to court and get sentenced , which really rubs injury into insult and flies 100% into the face of "innocent until proven guilty" bullshit we are all told is the way the system works. Before everyone…

> over 30 years getting arrested for minor shit all over the US Have you tried not spending three decades committing petty crimes "all over the US?" As for your original point - credit for time - you get 1.5x for time served. If you're sentenced to prison. If you spend weeks in jail but don't actually get sentenced to prison, there's nothing against which your time can be credited. Nobody's crediting jail time toward…

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Flaming someone about their own life story is particularly vicious and not ok here. Please do better.

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