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Leaked white paper proposes U.S. Congressional regulation of social media

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Re: Leaked white paper proposes U.S. Congressional regulation of social media

#131
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to make a value judgement by using a word like "behind", but I do think most Americans are simply not aware of how extreme our country's stance on free speech is compared to the rest of the world. Countries like the UK, France, and Germany seem to function just fine with their more restrictive laws on speech.

Could be that it’s only “fine” in the short term. Just 80 years ago Germany was very far from “fine”.

[deleted]

Re: Leaked white paper proposes U.S. Congressional regulation of social media

#132
It is funny to think a capitalist government could regulate anything. If it makes money then it is good. If it doesn't make money then it is bad. If it challenges the current way we make money it is bad, unless it makes more money then the old way then it is good. The problem with social media is it sells its user base to the highest bidder. No sort of regulation is going to stop that. Social media not going to give the government a key to there land. They have lobbyist, secret ninja assassins, black mail, and a endless supply of money to throw at this problem to keep them going strong. What happen when the government try to regulate sugar? Soda companies paid for studies to prove sugar is good for you and is part of a balance diet. What will these social media companies do? For starters they will lie like they currently are stating the technology cannot keep up with fake news. They know when a user gets home they should entice him/her to look at there phone as soon as they walk through there door because they will score a minimal 15 min of eye ball time even if a baby is screaming bloodie murder for them. Machine learning can automate propaganda for entire country, but you telling me it cannot figure out a 1$ bought domain linking to a story for the first time might be fake news? The government will "regulate" social media so they look like they are doing something. The companies will make backdoor deals to benefit them. The american people will cheer with joy knowing there is no more fake news on there social media sites. And when some russian hackers get bored they will buy 10$ worth of ad space on facebook targeting extremist in america. Just so they can gamble what is the best way to get a moron to wave a assault rifle in front of the white house.

Re: Leaked white paper proposes U.S. Congressional regulation of social media

#133
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The words on Twitter do sometimes include slander and threats which would make them illegal. The idea of a nebulous "illegality" is simplistic and wrong, in the US. They might open an individual to civil liability, but they aren't in violation of a criminal code, nor tort law. > That doesn't mean the action of speaking those words are legal Speech is always legal, in the US. What you think "legal" means is up for d…

Not all speech is always legal in the USA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Illegal_speech_in_the...

Note that the cases where speech is not legal are significantly more narrow than most people think they are. The category you link to has only 11 pages, and half of them are court cases where the Supreme Court decided against limiting free speech. (In particular, the famous "shouting fire in a crowded theater" quote is from a 1919 case that was overturned in 1969, and shouting fire in a crowded theater is not, in fact, illegal. Inadvisable, probably, and likely to get you banned from that theater for life, but not illegal.)

Re: Leaked white paper proposes U.S. Congressional regulation of social media

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, my local paper had a comment section that was dominated by the typical hysterical, unhinged, anonymous arguing between far right and far left partisans that we see in a lot of online discourse. They changed to a "real name" policy and now the comments, while much reduced, are also much more thoughtful and tend to stay on-topic.

> They changed to a "real name" policy and now the comments, while much reduced, are also much more thoughtful and tend to stay on-topic. Real name policies eliminate specific categories of speech. One of those categories is trolling, which naturally makes everybody very happy. The problem is that some of the other categories are really important . If you require real names then people with minority views are afraid…

I'm in favor of deanonymizing social media. I don't think it will affect whistleblowing, because so far mainstream social media has not been such a great source of whistleblowing. Anonymous leaks are still best presented by a journalist that's willing to vet the info and put their name on it.

What anonymity does do to social media is muddy the waters to a great degree. Online discourse is now built on bad faith, because of the lack of consequence and reputation.

I've enjoyed anonymity as much as the next person, but I believe it is a net detriment to communication.

Re: Leaked white paper proposes U.S. Congressional regulation of social media

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, my local paper had a comment section that was dominated by the typical hysterical, unhinged, anonymous arguing between far right and far left partisans that we see in a lot of online discourse. They changed to a "real name" policy and now the comments, while much reduced, are also much more thoughtful and tend to stay on-topic.

Okay, but what about political dissidents, people in abusive relationships, people in backwards areas who aren't heterosexual, just play shy people, and many others? I don't have a clear cut answer myself, because on the other hand, anonymity opens the floodgates to so much manipulation that also ends up hurting real people, and that will only get worse as technology gets refined in those directions. Those that want…

I think policing your own thoughts and communication in a social setting is an essential element to human discourse, and the lack of self policing is exactly why online discourse is substantially lower quality and is based on bad faith.

Re: Leaked white paper proposes U.S. Congressional regulation of social media

#136
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as it isn't libel/slander or 'fighting words', we do allow it in the physical world. Shouting words at someone is not illegal.

Depending on the words, it is entirely illegal in many countries around the world. The USA is behind the curve on that.

Most would argue that other countries are incredibly behind on what freedoms that the US protects.

Re: Leaked white paper proposes U.S. Congressional regulation of social media

#137
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as it isn't libel/slander or 'fighting words', we do allow it in the physical world. Shouting words at someone is not illegal.

Depending on the words, it is entirely illegal in many countries around the world. The USA is behind the curve on that.

Historically, countries with more pronounced freedom of speech fared better against the rise of fascism than countries that did regulate too much.

Re: Leaked white paper proposes U.S. Congressional regulation of social media

#138
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disincentivize for-profit news.

Make negative campaign ads illegal. Elections are votes FOR a candidate, not votes against someone.

Are you serious? That is called censorship. Sure, don't let there be ads that reveal a candidate formerly ran a sex trade ring and is a pedophile ETC.

Re: Leaked white paper proposes U.S. Congressional regulation of social media

#139
post #111

Does anyone truly believe that regulation is going to fix that in a way that leaves people the ability to freely express their thoughts -- something that is and should be a human right? I think the real issue here is that social media has moved us to a place where people's real thoughts are visible to all, and the problem we need to solve is how society will work now that the genie is out of the bottle. Social media…

The anonymous factor does allow people to voice their own thoughts without fear. It also allows people to lie without having their physical reputation damaged. They create new fake accounts if old ones become known to spread information. People take so much information that they read as gospel. Selective reporting and the use of loose "anonymous" sources by media outlets (who have become so partisan and biased in one direction or the other) have gone on to perpetuate this problem even further.

Re: Leaked white paper proposes U.S. Congressional regulation of social media

#140
post #73

Ug, never proposals for education, grants for preferred alternative implementations, publicly funded communication platforms, recognition that the status quo is people's preference, data transparency encouragement (not user transparency...not "who", but "what" wrt internal analytics), enforcement of existing advertisement/fraud/collusion statutes, etc. The first step always has to be more legislation, very sad. I'd a…

>recognition that the status quo is people's preference...I'd argue in the scheme of things, it's not really that broken Continuing the status quo means the people in power stay in power. It therefore isn't surprising that the people in power prefer preserving the status quo. It also isn't surprising that the people who believe the system is broken and are most against the status quo are those that belong to historic…

The status quo today is diversity programs pushed by top corporations. "Whiteness Studies" courses aiming to "deconstruct White people" in top universities. Generous affirmative action. Language policing by internet hate mobs (who primarily police the language of people who are not PoC). And a popular culture that celebrates LGBTQ people and PoC pretty much non-stop year around.

People have been politically mobilized by the idea of "change" since the beginning of democracy. But that's just because the idea of "change" has a certain energy to it that is important for campaigning. Most people don't like the idea of supporting the existing status quo because it seems ... low energy.

So anyway. You'll find a lot of professional activists working at big tech companies (a lot of companies now have 'racial equity' orgs which essentially exist to do political activism), having their concerns heard by people in power, and all the while talking about smashing the status quo. But they aren't really trying to smash the status quo. They are just taking the existing status quo step by step to its logical conclusion.

The people trying to smash the status quo are usually the ones having laws passed against them. Who don't have corporate leaders pandering to them. Who don't get celebrated by the media.

It's the anime avatar having people on Twitter, who constantly break taboos with their speech, who are against the status quo and that's why the current power structure wants to shut them down.

(I'm not saying you are wrong for supporting the existing power structure, but it _is_ wrong to pretend that the current power structure isn't pro-LGBTQ and PoC because it is emphatically so.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi-RfWz1W8Y

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