Snap’s Drop in Active Users Could Signal a Social Media Peak • Hacker News Board

Re: Snap’s Drop in Active Users Could Signal a Social Media Peak

#151

Post by terryf » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 6:31 AM UTC

quotemstr wrote: post #128

florabuzzword wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bailed at the advent of forced non-chronological timelines. I would have been less insulted if Facebook hired someone to spit in my face. Easily the scummiest design decision I have ever whitnessed. Actively manipulating the structural representation of time in a communication platform is begging for chaos. Yes, of course I know the time stamps are still presented. That is not my point. Communication is sensitive;…

Chronological is just one ordering. Why are you so attached to it? Why must deviating from this one specific ranking approach lead to "chaos"? Algorithmic ranking is not evil. A tiny minority of people rail against algorithmic ranking, but the vast majority, as demonstrated by their engagement , prefer the algorithmic model. Should we let this tiny vocal minority dictate policy, data be damned?

"As demonstrated by engagement" - isn't really true. It's more "As demonstrated by count of time spent in the app". I believe that is true. But it's also a worse experience. Those two really seem to contradict each other, however, it's really quite nuanced.

I'd like to see mostly what my friends are up to. Instead of that, on Facebook at least, I mostly see viral videos from whatever groups I happen to be in. It is true that a lot of the time, those suck me into watching them. Technically that counts as "time spend in the app", but I also see that I'm wasting a lot of my time on crappy pointless videos and because of that I've actually not opened the app at all from time to time. In general, my attitude towards it has also changed - it used to be "ooh, exciting, let's see what's happened", now it's more like "meh, maybe this time there is something interesting, let's check, although probably not". Jaded is probably the correct description.

Re: Snap’s Drop in Active Users Could Signal a Social Media Peak

#152

Post by sethrin » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 6:32 AM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #78

sethrin wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the 2008 crash can be described as an informational failure, my understanding was that this information was deliberately omitted, not just unread; it was fraud, not just a systemic failure. Also, you seem to be describing blockchain costs as being minimal in some sense. My suspicion is that this is less true than you think. Currently, blockchains have very high energy usage. If you are saying we need to structu…

> my understanding was that this information was deliberately omitted, not just unread; it was fraud Debt was fraudulently misrated, so you'd have junk bonds rated as AAA or whatever. But the primary data was all there, so you could actually go visit all of the properties and talk to the owners like they did in The Big Short, it's just that no one did. The people who approved the mortgages also weren't verifying peop…

I did indicate that the power issues are not inherent, even in the quoted sentence. I am disappointed in your response to the degree that it does not address other externalities. In some ways the general lack of exactitude in human affairs is a feature. There are also two sides to the issue of privacy, which is not impossible to achieve for an immutable distributed ledger, but not necessarily the natural tendency. Further issues may occur to you.

Re: Snap’s Drop in Active Users Could Signal a Social Media Peak

#153

Post by jgtrosh » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 6:33 AM UTC

florabuzzword wrote: post #146

quotemstr wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chronological is just one ordering. Why are you so attached to it? Why must deviating from this one specific ranking approach lead to "chaos"? Algorithmic ranking is not evil. A tiny minority of people rail against algorithmic ranking, but the vast majority, as demonstrated by their engagement , prefer the algorithmic model. Should we let this tiny vocal minority dictate policy, data be damned?

> Chronological is just one ordering. Why are you so attached to it? This is a very deep question you’re asking, and I don’t know the answer. But, this boat only goes in one direction so let’s make the best of it. But seriously, sure other sorting methods are useful. I would like to have many options, but I can’t think of a better default for this use case. Can you? > ...as demonstrated by their engagement, prefer th…

> > ...as demonstrated by their engagement, prefer the algorithmic model. > > […] > > As demonstrated by their engagement, people prefer doing whatever their boss tells them to do.

Engagement means people are engaging more with non-chronological feeds than with chronological ones. This isn't just about blindly accepting what you are given, it's also about caring more for pertinence than order.

Re: Snap’s Drop in Active Users Could Signal a Social Media Peak

#154

Post by benjaminjackman » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 6:34 AM UTC

Everything's a pendulum, especially, (un)fortunately, pendulums.

I, personally, doubt social media is really peaking. Maybe it is. Seems like more of the same, people switching providers. Going from that crufty thing the old folks use to something n new. Isn't Instagram the new hotness, spreading like crazy? How are they not even mentioned in the article?!? Seems pretty sloppy, or worse disingenuous but maybe I'm missing something.

So, then isn't Snap due for a fall? How does one provider falling signify a collapse of growing, still nascent, medium?

Re: Snap’s Drop in Active Users Could Signal a Social Media Peak

#155

Post by mrweasel » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 6:35 AM UTC

toomanybeersies wrote: post #130

florabuzzword wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bailed at the advent of forced non-chronological timelines. I would have been less insulted if Facebook hired someone to spit in my face. Easily the scummiest design decision I have ever whitnessed. Actively manipulating the structural representation of time in a communication platform is begging for chaos. Yes, of course I know the time stamps are still presented. That is not my point. Communication is sensitive;…

Your Facebook newsfeed is not a communication platform. It's arguable if it ever was, but it certainly isn't now.

And the reason that it's not is that the chronologically ordered feed generate less revenue. I doubt that Facebook is just trying to mess with people.

Re: Snap’s Drop in Active Users Could Signal a Social Media Peak

#156

Post by havermeyer » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 6:35 AM UTC

florabuzzword wrote: post #118

Alex3917 wrote: post #7

We might be at a local maximum, but we're nowhere near the peak. What we're seeing is an end of the race to the bottom. What's happened is that most of the major social networks only hire and promote people who make decisions primarily based on analytics. As a result these sites no longer have any real communities or organic content, and have been completely hollowed out by math-friendly refrigerator magnet junkfood.…

I bailed at the advent of forced non-chronological timelines. I would have been less insulted if Facebook hired someone to spit in my face. Easily the scummiest design decision I have ever whitnessed. Actively manipulating the structural representation of time in a communication platform is begging for chaos. Yes, of course I know the time stamps are still presented. That is not my point. Communication is sensitive;…

One of the reasons that I like Twitter... It has a short section with "important" (by some metric) tweets since the last time that you viewed your feed, followed by tweets in chronological order. Facebook surely has the ability to do something similar but it would negatively impact how much time people spend on the site.

Re: Snap’s Drop in Active Users Could Signal a Social Media Peak

#157

Post by josephg » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 6:36 AM UTC

quotemstr wrote: post #128

florabuzzword wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bailed at the advent of forced non-chronological timelines. I would have been less insulted if Facebook hired someone to spit in my face. Easily the scummiest design decision I have ever whitnessed. Actively manipulating the structural representation of time in a communication platform is begging for chaos. Yes, of course I know the time stamps are still presented. That is not my point. Communication is sensitive;…

Chronological is just one ordering. Why are you so attached to it? Why must deviating from this one specific ranking approach lead to "chaos"? Algorithmic ranking is not evil. A tiny minority of people rail against algorithmic ranking, but the vast majority, as demonstrated by their engagement , prefer the algorithmic model. Should we let this tiny vocal minority dictate policy, data be damned?

> Algorithmic ranking is not evil. A tiny minority of people rail against algorithmic ranking, but the vast majority, as demonstrated by their engagement, prefer the algorithmic model. Should we let this tiny vocal minority dictate policy, data be damned?

I was listening to the Next Billion Seconds podcast the other day. They made the point that in social media 'engagement' is a polite euphemism for 'addictiveness'.

I've rephrased your post to show why I find it unsettling:

> Algorithmic ranking is not evil. A tiny minority of people rail against algorithmic ranking, but the vast majority find the algorithmic model to be more addictive. Should we let a tiny vocal minority dictate policy, data be damned?

Re: Snap’s Drop in Active Users Could Signal a Social Media Peak

#158

Post by cft » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 6:38 AM UTC

quotemstr wrote: post #128

florabuzzword wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bailed at the advent of forced non-chronological timelines. I would have been less insulted if Facebook hired someone to spit in my face. Easily the scummiest design decision I have ever whitnessed. Actively manipulating the structural representation of time in a communication platform is begging for chaos. Yes, of course I know the time stamps are still presented. That is not my point. Communication is sensitive;…

Chronological is just one ordering. Why are you so attached to it? Why must deviating from this one specific ranking approach lead to "chaos"? Algorithmic ranking is not evil. A tiny minority of people rail against algorithmic ranking, but the vast majority, as demonstrated by their engagement , prefer the algorithmic model. Should we let this tiny vocal minority dictate policy, data be damned?

It's not demonstrated by engagement. The engagement exists simply because there's no alternative: FB made new attempts to enter the social media impossible. You will not get funding and you will not be able to monetize with advertising: monetization of user generated content with ads is impossible in 2018 unless you are at least the size of Reddit.

Re: Snap’s Drop in Active Users Could Signal a Social Media Peak

#159

Post by smegger001 » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 6:42 AM UTC

shawn wrote: post #77

lsalvatore wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe those "fucked" artists should invent their own characters. You know, being creative instead of copying other people's ideas.

Just like Disney did with Alice in Wonderland, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk862BbjWx4 "And now you, dear filmmaker, want to come along and want to make your own version of Star Wars: A New Hope? For shame! That's like stealing food right out of George Lucas' mouth."

I am just waiting for Disney to buy the rights to Joseph Campbell's "Hero with a Thousand Faces" and try to claim they own the monomyth and all derivative stories are violating their copyright.

Re: Snap’s Drop in Active Users Could Signal a Social Media Peak

#160

Post by mrweasel » Wed, Aug 08, 2018, 6:42 AM UTC

dkrich wrote: post #115

How did this article make the New York Times? It’s awful. I listened to the entire Snap conference call and Spiegel directly attributed the drop in active users to the app redesign, a fact that wasn’t mentioned until 2/3 of the way through the article. Moreover, they gave no guidance for DAU projections, and merely said that historically fewer users are active in the third quarter than the second. This does not equat…

>Spiegel directly attributed the drop in active users to the app redesign

I wouldn't be surprised. Navigation is all over the place in Snapshot. Try sending a snap, and now I'm suddenly view stories from people I don't know, with no clear way of getting out. I can see some users jut giving up on using the app.