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Bringing Vulkan everywhere

gfx-rs.github.io

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Re: Bringing Vulkan everywhere

#41

Post by pcwalton »

statusreport wrote: post #11
achandlerwhite wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Apple “killing off” OpenGL? Isn’t it just deprecated ie not further development but not removed?

In this year’s WWDC I asked the same question one of the GPU software engineers and he claimed that Apple is going to completely remove support for OpenGL in about two years from now. Regardless, “deprecated” means “no longer maintained”, meaning that if any regressions will appear in the near future, it’s possible no one will fix them, as these issues will not be prioritized.

Note that Apple is still committed to supporting WebGL in Safari, so OpenGL ES will at least be supported that way going forward.

So it's arguably not so much "OpenGL is going away" as it is "OpenGL is going to be maintained by the Safari team, and JS will be the only interface to it" :)

Re: Bringing Vulkan everywhere

#42

Post by zanny »

shmerl wrote: post #31
protoster wrote: post #20

Correct me if I'm wrong: 1) this is an effort to provide an abstract graphics API for any OS/CPU instruction set 2) it is rust and therefore usable from rust and C(++). If so, great news! Maybe we'll one day be free from tyranny of Windows when it comes to gaming. In my ideal world, operating systems should be interchangeable like web browsers and competing to provide the best implementation of an open standard rathe…

> it is rust and therefore usable from rust and C(++). They want to provide C bindings (vulkan.h). > Have there been any previous attempts to do this? Any success? MoltenVK translates Vulkan into Metal. Looks like gfx-rs has a potential to break these lock-ins one step further with translating Vulkan into DirectX 12. They should also consider making GNM backend for completeness.

Is there any hardware that supports only DX12 and not Vulkan?

My understanding is the only extant device is the Xbox One, which doesn't support Vulkan not because the hardware lacks the ability or drivers (since its an AMD SoC shared with the PS4 and using GCN 3 tech) but because of politics trying to lock developers into their API over the industry standard.

Trying to fight politics with software rarely ends well, especially with hobbyist software. Microsoft has complete control over their console and are probably willing to take moves to prevent the use of transpilers on their platform in the same vein Apple has.

Re: Bringing Vulkan everywhere

#47

Post by shmerl »

zanny wrote: post #42
shmerl wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is rust and therefore usable from rust and C(++). They want to provide C bindings (vulkan.h). > Have there been any previous attempts to do this? Any success? MoltenVK translates Vulkan into Metal. Looks like gfx-rs has a potential to break these lock-ins one step further with translating Vulkan into DirectX 12. They should also consider making GNM backend for completeness.

Is there any hardware that supports only DX12 and not Vulkan? My understanding is the only extant device is the Xbox One, which doesn't support Vulkan not because the hardware lacks the ability or drivers (since its an AMD SoC shared with the PS4 and using GCN 3 tech) but because of politics trying to lock developers into their API over the industry standard. Trying to fight politics with software rarely ends well, e…

Both recent Xbox and PlayStation hardware should support Vulkan just fine, so it is dirty political and anti-competitive tactic not to support it there.

But if MS will try banning things like translation layers, they already can get some anti-trust pushback. Apple while being complete lock-in jerks, so far didn't prevent usage of MoltenVK on their systems. Recent incident with using private APIs was resolved, and Apple allowed applications that use MoltenVK back on iOS.

Re: Bringing Vulkan everywhere

#48

Post by muizelaar »

zanny wrote: post #42
shmerl wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is rust and therefore usable from rust and C(++). They want to provide C bindings (vulkan.h). > Have there been any previous attempts to do this? Any success? MoltenVK translates Vulkan into Metal. Looks like gfx-rs has a potential to break these lock-ins one step further with translating Vulkan into DirectX 12. They should also consider making GNM backend for completeness.

Is there any hardware that supports only DX12 and not Vulkan? My understanding is the only extant device is the Xbox One, which doesn't support Vulkan not because the hardware lacks the ability or drivers (since its an AMD SoC shared with the PS4 and using GCN 3 tech) but because of politics trying to lock developers into their API over the industry standard. Trying to fight politics with software rarely ends well, e…

5th generation Intel chips support Direct3D12 and not Vulkan.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000...

Re: Bringing Vulkan everywhere

#50

Post by microcolonel »

muizelaar wrote: post #48
zanny wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any hardware that supports only DX12 and not Vulkan? My understanding is the only extant device is the Xbox One, which doesn't support Vulkan not because the hardware lacks the ability or drivers (since its an AMD SoC shared with the PS4 and using GCN 3 tech) but because of politics trying to lock developers into their API over the industry standard. Trying to fight politics with software rarely ends well, e…

5th generation Intel chips support Direct3D12 and not Vulkan. https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000...

If I'm not mistaken, Mesa/ANV supports Vulkan back to Haswell (with some limitations until Broadwell).
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