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Sadly, I must say goodbye to Leaf, my programming language

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Re: Sadly, I must say goodbye to Leaf, my programming language

#31
I want to do D, and it'll be easier to do A, B, C first.

A turned out harder than expected; B had challenges, some seemly insurmountable, some merely incredibly tedious. C looks even worse.

I'm exhausted, lost interest in D. But I "should" continue. I give up... a failure.

All because A, B, C make D "easy".

Re: Sadly, I must say goodbye to Leaf, my programming language

#32

I had a similar thought process (but luckily without spending time implementing something). I want to write a game. I thought, "None of the current languages works quite the way I want. I know! I'll write a language specifically for my game and just keep implementing the bits I need". Then I thought, "Wait. If I do that, I'll spend 90% of my time writing a language and 10% of my time writing a game". So I was saved.…

I'm in the same, but get the opposite idea. I procastinate in build the language I want (a relational engine, not a DB, a language) always thinking "Is better to let that to pros".

But more time I do the same things over and over, more I'm convinved I could abstract my main tasks (around data manipulation) in a simple language:

https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/8ygbvy/state_of_rust_...

But the idiot of me think "and the let's use Rust... how hard it can be?". And now.. is HARD! Sadly, Swift was ruled out:

https://www.reddit.com/r/swift/comments/8zb9y1/state_of_swif...

and don't wanna do C/C++.

I expect the language to be a glorified DSL that is just about data, parsing, loading data, moving data, converting from this to that and a way better (I hope!) than ORM for interfacing to RDBMS.

Re: Sadly, I must say goodbye to Leaf, my programming language

#33
post #32

I had a similar thought process (but luckily without spending time implementing something). I want to write a game. I thought, "None of the current languages works quite the way I want. I know! I'll write a language specifically for my game and just keep implementing the bits I need". Then I thought, "Wait. If I do that, I'll spend 90% of my time writing a language and 10% of my time writing a game". So I was saved.…

I'm in the same, but get the opposite idea. I procastinate in build the language I want (a relational engine, not a DB, a language ) always thinking "Is better to let that to pros". But more time I do the same things over and over, more I'm convinved I could abstract my main tasks (around data manipulation) in a simple language: https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/8ygbvy/state_of_rust_... But the idiot of me think…

This isn't my area per se but have you considered Lisp/Haskell (even Ruby) or one of the other languages with good metaprogramming/DSL creation facilities?

Or perhaps making a small extension to one of the above, I know many languages have the ability to be extended through modules added at compile (meaning when you compile the interpreter/compiler/runtime itself, not the program) time, or used as a target for a preprocessor. That makes it so it's at least a little easier to get a userbase going, maybe some existing libraries can work with your language.

If that's not possible, I'd be curious to learn what makes it not feasible. Fresh approaches to data processing are really desirable right now, since so many of us are working with data that is different from what language designers intended.

Re: Sadly, I must say goodbye to Leaf, my programming language

#34
post #26

I had a similar thought process (but luckily without spending time implementing something). I want to write a game. I thought, "None of the current languages works quite the way I want. I know! I'll write a language specifically for my game and just keep implementing the bits I need". Then I thought, "Wait. If I do that, I'll spend 90% of my time writing a language and 10% of my time writing a game". So I was saved.…

Games are still in need of a better language. I have some skepticism and hope for Jai. I really wish D as better C worked better in that realm, but it's missing a few crucial things. Rust asserts too much control over memory. I'm all ears for anything that's somewhere between C and C++ as an alternative to write games in. Most new languages just don't get the things right that C++ did, which is why despite it having…

Use regular C, but write the code in literate programming files which can be rendered into a portable design document describing the implementation and interaction of every subsystem in the codebase. 'Standard written English' is the best language available for modeling abstractions.

Re: Sadly, I must say goodbye to Leaf, my programming language

#35
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hit a similar roadblock for a long time, always spending time writing low level graphics utilities (which I do rather enjoy) but never getting around to writing a game. If you find yourself in a similar situation and want to get around it I would suggest trying unity, which I was hesitant to do since: 1. It felt like giving up and cheating, and 2. I don't like how unity interfaces with the developer, since I mostly…

Re the second point did you manage to get around this? Played with it a bit and it felt almost like flash back in the day where you could eschew the timeline and do everything programmatically. In the end ran into a problem where I wanted to move the universe around the player and couldn’t get the particle engine to cope..

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but you should just need to move the player in the opposite direction of the world's desired movement? No game system I'm aware does it the other way around, as it requires changing all the other models transforms.

But yes, I am dealing with the interface, primarily by ignoring it. I'm still trying to get down the right way to organize my code, but it's making sense.

Re: Sadly, I must say goodbye to Leaf, my programming language

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re the second point did you manage to get around this? Played with it a bit and it felt almost like flash back in the day where you could eschew the timeline and do everything programmatically. In the end ran into a problem where I wanted to move the universe around the player and couldn’t get the particle engine to cope..

You can do anything programmatically in unity. I think professionals tend towards this. You use the world editor only for artistic expression, the spatial layout and tuning etc. where previewing layout really saves time. For very specific effects like universe turning, you have to do a lot of code work in a niche area, but it's still quicker than building a particle engine from scratch. Sometimes you can cheat the ef…

What in the world is universe turning?

Re: Sadly, I must say goodbye to Leaf, my programming language

#37
post #33
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the same, but get the opposite idea. I procastinate in build the language I want (a relational engine, not a DB, a language ) always thinking "Is better to let that to pros". But more time I do the same things over and over, more I'm convinved I could abstract my main tasks (around data manipulation) in a simple language: https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/8ygbvy/state_of_rust_... But the idiot of me think…

This isn't my area per se but have you considered Lisp/Haskell (even Ruby) or one of the other languages with good metaprogramming/DSL creation facilities? Or perhaps making a small extension to one of the above, I know many languages have the ability to be extended through modules added at compile (meaning when you compile the interpreter/compiler/runtime itself, not the program) time, or used as a target for a prep…

>If that's not possible, I'd be curious to learn what makes it not feasible. Fresh approaches to data processing are really desirable right now, since so many of us are working with data that is different from what language designers intended.

I wish to use instead swift, that hit a sweet spot. Using other lang (like python, that I loved!) make hard to target iOS/Android. This is the main crux of mine. This mean that I need to re-code a lot of stuff across platforms and targets, because nothing is good enough. I also use xamarin/F# and the integration with android/ios is not as good as I imagine (ie: xamarin.forms sucks. And is damm hard to integrate yourself anything (ie: ios/android libraries) outside it).

I also try with nim but is too crude and lack a lot of libraries I will need. I'm also thinking on using pascal, that I also like much, so now is just looking how good could be the use of rust...

Re: Sadly, I must say goodbye to Leaf, my programming language

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe rust can compile down to a shared object and thus trivially used via any CFFI. Sure you lose the expressivness of the rust language APIs but that's a nightmare for interop anyways.

Only because rust has an unstable ABI. I feel like it'd be nice to have rust provide an explicit "rust-stable" ABI for those kind of things.

I can't find much documentation on it, but it sounds like there's support for the Itanium c++ ABI

Re: Sadly, I must say goodbye to Leaf, my programming language

#39
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This post seems to be just a collection of generalities judging the way that someone else has chosen to spend his time. You seem both to be saying that he shouldn't have started and that, since he started, he shouldn't stop. Well, presumably the author once got some value out of the effort, so that it was worth starting; and found that he was now no longer getting enough value out of it, so that it was worth stopping…

For a private endeavour, whether he finishes or not is completely up to him. When he puts it out for all to see, this then changes the dynamic under which he is moving forward. If he had said he was stopping due to life commitments or family situations, etc, then these kinds of things take priority, as they should. No problems or issues should arise from that. But he has stated that he is giving up because it now inv…

^ I don't see it as indicating undesirable character at all. I read the piece as more an indication that the guy knows when to cut his losses and stop allocating resources to unprofitable activity. Which to me, from a business perspective, is a sign of someone with their head screwed on straight.

I also don't grasp the logic behind the notion that once a creator shows his work -- or work-in-progress -- to the public that he is somehow bound by duty, honor, respect for his 'followers', or some other compelling consideration, to finish that work.

If Beethoven starts writing a string quartet, and posts the first movement on the internet, but then realizes that the Duke isn't going to commission it and he'd rather be writing a sonata anyway, does it really reflect badly on LvB if he abandons the quartet?

Re: Sadly, I must say goodbye to Leaf, my programming language

#40

I had a similar thought process (but luckily without spending time implementing something). I want to write a game. I thought, "None of the current languages works quite the way I want. I know! I'll write a language specifically for my game and just keep implementing the bits I need". Then I thought, "Wait. If I do that, I'll spend 90% of my time writing a language and 10% of my time writing a game". So I was saved.…

Jon Blow's been working on a programming languages for games (intro / philosophy here): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH9VCN6UkyQ

Series of videos here - https://www.youtube.com/user/jblow888/videos - I don't program games but it looks super interesting

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