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Android Pie SDK is now more Kotlin-friendly

android-developers.googleblog.com

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Re: Android Pie SDK is now more Kotlin-friendly

#31

Post by fmorel »

skybrian wrote: post #30
izacus wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since this year you won't be allowed to do that anymore - since backwards compatibility behaviour allowed app developers to avoid privacy protecting features like runtime permissions.

I'm not an Android developer but they say supporting older versions should still work: "Existing apps that are not receiving updates are unaffected. Developers remain free to use a minSdkVersion of their choice, so there is no change to your ability to build apps for older Android versions." [1] https://developer.android.com/distribute/best-practices/deve...

Yes, you can still support older versions. But the app must target at least Oreo, which means supporting the new permission model on newer versions of Android while making use of unfettered access on older versions.

Re: Android Pie SDK is now more Kotlin-friendly

#32

Post by altair8800 »

the_trapper wrote: post #15
simcop2387 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They sort of do, the first letter of the new name is always the next one in the english alphabet. That said, they do have version numbers but almost no marketing uses them with or instead of the codenames. Kitkat Lolipop Marshmallow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_version_history

The stupid thing is that these code names sometimes span multiple versions of Android and even API levels making it all even more of a clusterfuck of a platform. My suspicion is that they do this to hide all of the fragmentation and pretend that more handsets are up to date than they actually are.

What's the difference between named releases and Apple's semantic versioning? Both create groupings that hide fragmentation.

Re: Android Pie SDK is now more Kotlin-friendly

#33

Post by bmurphy1976 »

gammateam wrote: post #18
ilove_banh_mi wrote: post #5

I'm giving up on upgrading my apps for Android. The releases are dividing the market every single year and consequently steadily eroding sales. On the one hand Google's Nexus was released 3 years ago and is now obsolete; on the other hand Apple's iPhone 5s was released 5 years ago and gets to run iOS 12. On top of this, the vast majority of my paying customers use iOS, not Android (a variety of lifestyle and referenc…

Android developers get around 3-5 years before they stop rationalizing the potential and ditch that ecosystem. Apple won this battle. The actual android users that "can't stand Apple and need control" have no clue what they are missing anymore. They haven't looked at Apple since 2013. Unlike Blackberry faithful, Android users really do have great more advanced technology on paper, but look, nobody cares.

Well that's a pretty shitty view.

I've got an iPad I use regularly and develop for so I know iOS inside and out. My wife has an iPhone and I have to support all her bullshit all the time. I've been using Android since the Galaxy S2 and I'll keep my Android thank you very much.

I'd trade my iPad for a new Nexus 7 in a heartbeat were one available. My non-tech savvy parents have been using Android for years. They don't give a shit about Apple.

I don't think your characterization is accurate at all.

Re: Android Pie SDK is now more Kotlin-friendly

#34

Post by knuththetruth »

izacus wrote: post #9
ilove_banh_mi wrote: post #5

I'm giving up on upgrading my apps for Android. The releases are dividing the market every single year and consequently steadily eroding sales. On the one hand Google's Nexus was released 3 years ago and is now obsolete; on the other hand Apple's iPhone 5s was released 5 years ago and gets to run iOS 12. On top of this, the vast majority of my paying customers use iOS, not Android (a variety of lifestyle and referenc…

The only way you get only 12% installation share on Oreo is if you're targeting Indian continent with Hindi localisation. For a western world targeted app, the stats are around 35-40% for Oreo right now. So you seem to be deliberately ignoring your own installation stats just to complain - the dashboard you're posted is pretty much not relevant for anyone but multi-million installation apps like Facebook. In other wo…

Conflating a very real and common concern (fragmentation in the android market) with “toxicity” seems a bit excessive.

Re: Android Pie SDK is now more Kotlin-friendly

#35

Post by wyattpeak »

ytwySXpMbS wrote: post #22
emidln wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sample size 1 here. I used an iPhoneX for a few months this year. It was my first iPhone, and I loathed the browser lock-in and the lack of automatic contacts sync. The UX is far less consistent than modern Android apps (e.g. the back functionality out of an app). I missed my app drawer as well. The iPhone was free from work, yet I paid out of pocket for a Galaxy S9+ so I could go back to Android.

Making an assumption here, but I assume you loathed the browser lock in because you tried using a different browser, probably Chrome. Thing is, for iOS, you have to drink the koolaid to truly see the benefit. Personally coming from Android it's so nice not being asked which app I want to open a link in all the time, I dont have to think about it. I know that sounds silly because you can choose a default, but it's too…

While I suspect you're right (a number of my family members use a full Apple ecosystem and love it), to someone who doesn't there seem to be an almost endless number of changes you need to make.

I've had a couple of iPhones, and at times tried to fully use their system, but that promised "perfect simplicity" seems to always be around one more corner. Change your browser. Change your music provider. Change your backup procedure. And after all that, your Windows PC is a problem. And there I hit a wall, because I can't justify changing my PC, which is my livelihood, to an unfamiliar system in the hopes of simplicity.

I'm not knocking the Apple paradigm for those who are inside it. But transitioning to that apparent state of seamlessness feels nigh impossible.

Re: Android Pie SDK is now more Kotlin-friendly

#36

Post by mixedCase »

ytwySXpMbS wrote: post #22
emidln wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sample size 1 here. I used an iPhoneX for a few months this year. It was my first iPhone, and I loathed the browser lock-in and the lack of automatic contacts sync. The UX is far less consistent than modern Android apps (e.g. the back functionality out of an app). I missed my app drawer as well. The iPhone was free from work, yet I paid out of pocket for a Galaxy S9+ so I could go back to Android.

Making an assumption here, but I assume you loathed the browser lock in because you tried using a different browser, probably Chrome. Thing is, for iOS, you have to drink the koolaid to truly see the benefit. Personally coming from Android it's so nice not being asked which app I want to open a link in all the time, I dont have to think about it. I know that sounds silly because you can choose a default, but it's too…

> I don't want to have to choose and think which option I'm going to want more often as long as it works.

Last 5 words are why I can't use nor recommend Apple products.

Re: Android Pie SDK is now more Kotlin-friendly

#37

Post by wyattpeak »

simcop2387 wrote: post #4
drb91 wrote: post #2

I really wish they used version numbers rather than names so i can tell there’s a new version of android. I thought this was a just a distro for raspberry pis. It’s pretty clear in the article though, no sweat :)

They sort of do, the first letter of the new name is always the next one in the english alphabet. That said, they do have version numbers but almost no marketing uses them with or instead of the codenames. Kitkat Lolipop Marshmallow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_version_history

Funnily, I've been using Android for years and I never noticed until I thought "Why on earth would they call it Pie?" and it struck me. Guess I'm not as observant as I think.

Re: Android Pie SDK is now more Kotlin-friendly

#38

Post by bla2 »

ytwySXpMbS wrote: post #22
emidln wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sample size 1 here. I used an iPhoneX for a few months this year. It was my first iPhone, and I loathed the browser lock-in and the lack of automatic contacts sync. The UX is far less consistent than modern Android apps (e.g. the back functionality out of an app). I missed my app drawer as well. The iPhone was free from work, yet I paid out of pocket for a Galaxy S9+ so I could go back to Android.

Making an assumption here, but I assume you loathed the browser lock in because you tried using a different browser, probably Chrome. Thing is, for iOS, you have to drink the koolaid to truly see the benefit. Personally coming from Android it's so nice not being asked which app I want to open a link in all the time, I dont have to think about it. I know that sounds silly because you can choose a default, but it's too…

> not being asked which app I want to open a link in all the time

Huh? Just tap "always use this app", you can the default later if you want. That button is right there every time :-)

Re: Android Pie SDK is now more Kotlin-friendly

#39

Post by orangecat »

ytwySXpMbS wrote: post #22
emidln wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sample size 1 here. I used an iPhoneX for a few months this year. It was my first iPhone, and I loathed the browser lock-in and the lack of automatic contacts sync. The UX is far less consistent than modern Android apps (e.g. the back functionality out of an app). I missed my app drawer as well. The iPhone was free from work, yet I paid out of pocket for a Galaxy S9+ so I could go back to Android.

Making an assumption here, but I assume you loathed the browser lock in because you tried using a different browser, probably Chrome. Thing is, for iOS, you have to drink the koolaid to truly see the benefit. Personally coming from Android it's so nice not being asked which app I want to open a link in all the time, I dont have to think about it. I know that sounds silly because you can choose a default, but it's too…

it's too many options, I don't want to have to choose and think which option I'm going to want more often as long as it works

If slightly more people had had that attitude in 1998, Apple would not exist today.

Re: Android Pie SDK is now more Kotlin-friendly

#40

Post by balladeer »

emidln wrote: post #20
gammateam wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android developers get around 3-5 years before they stop rationalizing the potential and ditch that ecosystem. Apple won this battle. The actual android users that "can't stand Apple and need control" have no clue what they are missing anymore. They haven't looked at Apple since 2013. Unlike Blackberry faithful, Android users really do have great more advanced technology on paper, but look, nobody cares.

Sample size 1 here. I used an iPhoneX for a few months this year. It was my first iPhone, and I loathed the browser lock-in and the lack of automatic contacts sync. The UX is far less consistent than modern Android apps (e.g. the back functionality out of an app). I missed my app drawer as well. The iPhone was free from work, yet I paid out of pocket for a Galaxy S9+ so I could go back to Android.

Let's make it sample size 2 (include me).

I have been Android developer since ~7 years and I finally moved to iPhone ~2 years back with iPhone SE (mostly because it was the only sanely sized as per my needs and taste) and I also got the iOS 11 upgrade with the rest of the world and will get iOS 12 again in sometime.

My experience on iOS has been a lot smoother than that on Android. It almost never crashes esp. when I compare it to my Android experience of almost 6 years where crashing apps, frozen phone felt like a feature. Upgrades were a never fulfilled dream and sometimes promises (like Moto's). Unless I bought a real costly phone I'd not even hope to get an upgrade and if it wasn't something like Nexus (and now Pixel) or something like an OnePlus device I'd not even except an upgrade let alone timely upgrade.

I stopped missing back functionality out of an app exactly on day 3. I hated every browser on Android including Chrome. I had moved to Safari on Mac and iOS Safari experience is superior to any browser I had tried on Android.

Yes, it's been a compromise and my comment might seem like a convert's zeal (though I do hate Apple's ecosystem lock in of things like FaceTime and iMessage and other things) but I also no longer want to tweak my phone - root it, run mods, run XPrivacy, hope for a "maybe" upgrade", hope that a security patch will be sent to my phone etc etc. I am done living on the edge.

However I also must add that if someone isn't using Macs and other Apple devices and don't want to change just to use an iPhone (I wouldn't) then using an iPhone might not be as convenient.

By the way, I am still an Android developer even though when I dabbled with iOS dev for sometime and tried Apple's developer ecosystem I realised what a piece of garbage I've been using in Android Studio but that's entirely a different matter.

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